CHP Rumor Regarding Restored Cars

[28HopUp]

I decided to feed my internet forum addiction :) and join www.evooa.org, which is a group dedicated to all types of emergency vehicles. After I posted about my CHP SSP Mustang, I rec'd the following message -

Welcome Bill.
Several months ago, word got out that the CHP is no longer giving permission to have their retired vehicles restored or replicated. This created a big stir here in Calif.

There was also word going around that if an on duty CHP officer was at an event ( parade , car show, safety fair etc.) he or she has the power to cite or impound the vehicle, if the owner could not produce documentation showing that CHP sanctioned the vehicle restoration or replication.

They have even clamped down on the companies that replicate the vehicle emblems from what I was told.

CHP vehicles on the East coast, should not have any problems, unless they are used in an inappropriate manner.

Just thought I would pass this information along.
If anyone has updated info, please post it as well.
___________________


I'm NOT saying that this is indeed fact, but I wanted to put this out for discussion here. I know Utah has done something similar in regards to prohibiting the use of their state emblem on former police vehicles. Has anyone heard about the CHP doing something similar?

This has little impact on the plans I have for my car, because I am making it an unmarked driver and I live 2,800 miles away. But it certainly could affect others living in California who are looking to restore their CHP car.

[FHP813]

I'm not a lawyer or LEO but I always thought law enforcement was there to enforce the laws not make or change them. So until I see a statute in black and white I will take it as a rumor, although there might be a law on the books already and it was just not being enforced.

[jarhed123]

Try looking up the law at http://www.findlaw.com/. Any state or federal law and be found there

[CNTLOSE]

This is the law in OH:
2913.441 Unlawful display of law enforcement emblem.
(A) No person who is not entitled to do so shall knowingly display on a motor vehicle the emblem of a law enforcement agency or an organization of law enforcement officers.

(B) Whoever violates this section is guilty of the unlawful display of the emblem of a law enforcement agency or an organization of law enforcement officers, a minor misdemeanor.

Does not address emergency lights though. We had a guy who ran around with Vol. FF lights on his mini van and was not a FF. I believe the discussion on that was as long as they were not turned on it was okay...but they were solid red, not blue and red.

[mac88chp]

My comments:

"Several months ago, word got out that the CHP is no longer giving permission to have their retired vehicles restored or replicated. This created a big stir here in Calif."

This is very old news. The CHP has in fact not been giving private individuals sanction on restorations for many years now.

"There was also word going around that if an on duty CHP officer was at an event ( parade , car show, safety fair etc.) he or she has the power to cite or impound the vehicle, if the owner could not produce documentation showing that CHP sanctioned the vehicle restoration or replication."

Any LE officer in CA, not just CHP, has the power to investigate any vehicle that appears to be out of compliance with any of the existing CA vehicle codes surrounding emergency vehicles and related equipment and they can do it anytime, not just at an event. I know this firsthand as I've been pulled over on the highway in my sanctioned restoration on several occasions.

To date, I haven't heard of or witnessed any systematic crackdowns by the CHP at events or even on the road for that matter. So far, as long as hobbists have been following the generally accepted methods of keeping in compliance with the CVC (covering lights & decals, displaying appropriate "not in service" signage, etc) and in general keeping a low profile, there has not been any major problem out here.

"They have even clamped down on the companies that replicate the vehicle emblems from what I was told."

Sounds like an unfounded rumor to me.

___________________

[Andy]

My comments:

I know this firsthand as I've been pulled over on the highway in my sanctioned restoration on several occasions.

__________________


so is this a letter you keep in the glove box?
show us what you got!

[jarhed123]

so is this a letter you keep in the glove box?
show us what you got!
Yes!! Please post a clear and full size document so we call all see it. :D

[SparkSVT]

so is this a letter you keep in the glove box?
show us what you got!

I too would like to see what they gave you Michael. Thankfully this isnt a problem for me in Pennsylvania. I cant imagine them towing my car off of a showfield. Im not so sure I wouldnt be going to jail with the car.

[mac88chp]

so is this a letter you keep in the glove box?
show us what you got!The document I keep in the glovebox is a copy of a "decal use agreement" that is approved by the commissioner. It identifies me and my vehicle and outlines the permitted manner of vehicle operation and use of the CHP insignia. For security reasons, I will not post any copies on a public forum nor provide copies of it to anyone. However, I am happy to show it to interested parties at a show or event.

[jarhed123]

The document I keep in the glovebox is a copy of a "decal use agreement" that is approved by the commissioner. It identifies me and my vehicle and outlines the permitted manner of vehicle operation and use of the CHP insignia. For security reasons, I will not post any copies on a public forum nor provide copies of it to anyone. However, I am happy to show it to interested parties at a show or event.
GOOD RESPONSE!! But post the wording you used on the initial letter you wrote to the commissioner. Maybe we could send him a letter. Not that it matters much here in FLA but it would be a nice peace to have.

[CHP8336]

Before I responded to this I went to my local CHP office today and asked the sargent about this Rumor. The sargent said that as long as the car is not driven on any public roads you can do anything you wish to replacate any police vechicle. My car will be restored to in service look so I did not go into the laws re driving your cars to a show etc etc. I just wanted everyone to know that it is pure BS that your car can be impounded for looking like a CHP car.

RICH

[mac88chp]

Before I responded to this I went to my local CHP office today and asked the sargent about this Rumor. The sargent said that as long as the car is not driven on any public roads you can do anything you wish to replacate any police vechicle. My car will be restored to in service look so I did not go into the laws re driving your cars to a show etc etc. I just wanted everyone to know that it is pure BS that your car can be impounded for looking like a CHP car.

RICHTo further clarify the above, restored and replica police vehicles ARE currently being permitted to operate on public roads in California if they comply with the conditions listed earlier (covered lights & decals, "not in service" signage displayed, etc.) and are operated in a responsible manner. Some are also being permitted by the CVC section regarding "movie cars." However, this is not to be confused with the issue of scrutiny, which they all receive in varying degrees depending on the area, the circumstances and the personnel involved.

[FHP813]

"There was also word going around that if an on duty CHP officer was at an event ( parade , car show, safety fair etc.) he or she has the power to cite or impound the vehicle, if the owner could not produce documentation showing that CHP sanctioned the vehicle restoration or replication."

Any LE officer in CA, not just CHP, has the power to investigate any vehicle that appears to be out of compliance with any of the existing CA vehicle codes surrounding emergency vehicles and related equipment and they can do it anytime, not just at an event. I know this firsthand as I've been pulled over on the highway in my sanctioned restoration on several occasions.

To date, I haven't heard of or witnessed any systematic crackdowns by the CHP at events or even on the road for that matter. So far, as long as hobbists have been following the generally accepted methods of keeping in compliance with the CVC (covering lights & decals, displaying appropriate "not in service" signage, etc) and in general keeping a low profile, there has not been any major problem out here.

___________________

So much like the FHP paint scheme being illegal this too is not so. You may get pulled over but as long as you don't act like an idiot you should be ok.

[ImEvil1]

I'd rather avoid the scrutiny and just trailer to the shows. Problem solved. :yes:

[FHP813]

just trailer to the shows


But what if.... never mind.

http://www.hmc-china.com/images/SpeakNoEvil.jpg

[ImEvil1]

So much like the FHP paint scheme being illegal this too is not so.

Wait a second, now. The cousin of a brother of a friend of a US Marshal who knows a Trooper told me that it WAS illegal, at least according to my friend. :p

[mac88chp]

I'd rather avoid the scrutiny and just trailer to the shows. Problem solved. :yes:I'm with you...now who wants to buy me a trailer, and a tow vehicle, and storage for them? :D

[CHP8336]

I think there is a simple fix to this problem.


If you live in Ca and your car is restored to in service look. TRAILER IT!

If you live in Ca and your car is back to a civilian paint job and all li
ghts/emblems are covered. DRIVE IT!

I just dont know why you would want to even risk getting pulled over with a in service looking CHP car. I think that the $53.00 for a 24 hour U haul car trailer is worth the money. Money well spent in my mind. What do you think ?

[ImEvil1]

I think there is a simple fix to this problem.


If you live in Ca and your car is restored to in service look. TRAILER IT!

If you live in Ca and your car is back to a civilian paint job and all li
ghts/emblems are covered. DRIVE IT!

I just dont know why you would want to even risk getting pulled over with a in service looking CHP car. I think that the $53.00 for a 24 hour U haul car trailer is worth the money. Money well spent in my mind. What do you think ?

I agree with you! :yes:

[ImEvil1]

I'm with you...now who wants to buy me a trailer, and a tow vehicle, and storage for them? :D

Didn't you just buy a HHR or something?? ;)

Last time I trailered, it was an Expedition courtesy of a popular rental car agency and a rented trailer. I'm in the process of buying a truck now, though.

[NoDrama43]

will you have a emergency beacon on the roof of your truck?

[ImEvil1]

will you have a emergency beacon on the roof of your truck?

Nah...I gave those up with my last marked unit.

No push bumpers or spotlights, either. :shrug:

[FHP813]

will you have a emergency beacon on the roof of your truck?

http://newhampshire.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/speak-no-evil.jpg

[Andy]

The document I keep in the glovebox is a copy of a "decal use agreement" that is approved by the commissioner. It identifies me and my vehicle and outlines the permitted manner of vehicle operation and use of the CHP insignia. For security reasons, I will not post any copies on a public forum nor provide copies of it to anyone. However, I am happy to show it to interested parties at a show or event.


I have never been pulled over at a car show
so the assumption is that you were driving
on a public California road
and i can only assume
when pulled over
that the officer could not see
the decal (if it were covered over).....so were you
driving the car with the Decals NOT covered over?
on a public California road??

[ImEvil1]

Mike is pretty careful about that, so I doubt it.

Letter sure would be a great thing to have at a show when they are uncovered, though (at least in CA).

[CHP8336]

Officer! I only had my lights and siren on for 5 minutes! WHY ARE YOU PULLING ME OVER.!!:stiritup: :stiritup:

[Andy]

I know this firsthand as I've been pulled over on the highway in my sanctioned restoration on several occasions.


___________________

http://i43.tinypic.com/w1v0ow.jpg

[CHP8336]

:2thumbs: Is this thread Rumor or.......................Humor ????:goodpost:LOL LOL

[mac88chp]

I have never been pulled over at a car show
so the assumption is that you were driving
on a public California road
and i can only assume
when pulled over
that the officer could not see
the decal (if it were covered over).....so were you
driving the car with the Decals NOT covered over?
on a public California road??No, never. I always follow the guidelines in my agreement with the CHP and cover all the decals and lights when on the road. I also went one step beyond and installed a master switch for all the emergency equipment under the hood that is kept off when driving.

There is usually never a problem in areas where I've done events with the CHP and me and my car are known. But it's a big state and there are plenty of officers, esp. the younger ones, who are not very aware of the decal agreements and are of course very curious about the cars themselves. Besides showing my CHP agreement, I also give them a couple copies of a fact sheet I did up about SSP Mustangs and the history of my car that help satisfy their curiosity....one for them to keep and one to give to their local POA with my contact info on it should they ever like to consider including my car in a future function or event. They really appreciate the information and I feel it helps legitmize the hobby and my part in it.

[NoDrama43]

Mike has an awesome car and was one of the lucky few to get a letter from CHP. In reality it's the best way to go!

I use an enclosed trailer for any marked car to a show as I don't want to have to worry about local LEO, hail, rain, dirt, branches, deer, cows, horses, bird crap, idiots talking on cell phones etc.

[NoDrama43]

Nah...I gave those up with my last marked unit.

No push bumpers or spotlights, either. :shrug:


I still have all that at work....... I doubt they will let me drive an unmarked. Maybe if I get promoted to Captain?

[Andy]

Mike.C
I think the what you should have said from the get-go is
i have a letter from a the CHP allowing me to display CHP
decals on my restoration....... basically common sense in writing
when you use the term Sanctioned restoration it kinda cheapens
everyone else's efforts and i know there is allot a nice chp/ssp
cars around (not mine) Also the term sanctioned seems to give
a ((CHP Approved)) status when in reality all were talking
about here is a set of decals.
why the secret Master switch? you play with the lights/siren
or you don't or in my case you don't even connect them up.

[FHP813]

Let's take it easy Gentlemen. We are all HERE for the same reason.

[Kevin]

Just to add to what Mike C. said, it's been well over 5 years since CHP stopped giving permission for decals. When they were approving decal usage they would deny anyone out of state since there was no way for them to enforce their usage. Way back in the 90's CHP would even send you the decals with their approval letter. The offical line is this all changed after 9/11.

The California vehicle code states something to the effect that no vehicle built after 1/1/79 may be painted to resemble a police vehicle, so technically all SSPs are prohibited. There are exceptions for cars belonging to dealers, manufacturers and movie companies. There is no exception for privately owned collector cars. I'm lucky that like Mike I've had permission for my cars from way back so we would be allowed to have the cars painted and the decals and lights installed but covered while on the road. The only people who are approved now are CHP employees.

The gray area is that CHP will invite restored cars to participate in their open houses, retirees days, etc and never ask if the cars are approved. Like most large agencies the right hand may not know what the left is doing. The new comissioner is more "old car friendly" but I don't see anyone changing the policy out of fear of liability.

I both drive and trailer my cars and I've never been stopped. I've found passing Chippies will give a thumbs up and some even take pictures when I'm driving my '67 Oldsmobile. I haven't been stopped in my Mustang but the reaction is much more reserved, almost suspicious. I guess the difference is due to the Mustang looking like a much more modern car.

Since I have written permission I'll continue to drive my cars (properly covered) to close shows and trailer to others but it would be a different story without permission.

[CHP8336]

http://i43.tinypic.com/w1v0ow.jpg

O.K. It looks to me that I need a letter from the CHP in order to drive my car on a public road if I wish to do so. I want ANYONE ON THIS SITE to give me the proper contacts at the CHP to get this letter. I will go to Sacramento In person tomorrow to get the letter if need be. Keep in mind I do not work for the CHP. I want to see If ANYONE speaks up and gives me any contact information. I will bet that NOBODY will give me any contact info. I will sit back and be waiting for the response to this posting. Lets just see what happens???????...............Also if anybody does not want to post a reply here PLEASE PM ME!!!

[ImEvil1]

O.K. It looks to me that I need a letter from the CHP in order to drive my car on a public road if I wish to do so. I want ANYONE ON THIS SITE to give me the proper contacts at the CHP to get this letter. I will go to Sacramento In person tomorrow to get the letter if need be. Keep in mind I do not work for the CHP. I want to see If ANYONE speaks up and gives me any contact information. I will bet that NOBODY will give me any contact info. I will sit back and be waiting for the response to this posting. Lets just see what happens???????...............Also if anybody does not want to post a reply here PLEASE PM ME!!!

Rich,

A letter from CHP only authorizes decal usage...not for you to drive on a public road.

I called CHP a couple of years ago, and they said then that they will only give permission to current CHP, retired CHP, and LEOs from other states.

That may have changed since then, so who knows. I called the public relations office, and I'm sure you can google them and find it easily.

[jarhed123]

Rich, I bet if you wrapped the doors in black you could drive all day the car. Even for months, then take the wrap off for a show. Bad part is you would need to continue to wrap and un-wrap the car if you wanted it as a daily driver as well. I know that is not your thing but maybe another could use this info.

[CHP8336]

O.K. It looks to me that I need a letter from the CHP in order to drive my car on a public road if I wish to do so. I want ANYONE ON THIS SITE to give me the proper contacts at the CHP to get this letter. I will go to Sacramento In person tomorrow to get the letter if need be. Keep in mind I do not work for the CHP. I want to see If ANYONE speaks up and gives me any contact information. I will bet that NOBODY will give me any contact info. I will sit back and be waiting for the response to this posting. Lets just see what happens???????...............Also if anybody does not want to post a reply here PLEASE PM ME!!!

FYI Members,I am now aware that the (CHP letter) is allowing you to use the CHP emblem for display on your car. I am still waiting for a response to my post asking ANYONE on this site to give me the proper contacts at the CHP so I can get the LETTER of approval. Just as I stated in my earlier post NOBODY on this site with this letter has posted or sent me a private message with this information. WHY??? I dont understand??? I feel as though we all need to help each other with various issues we will all run into with this hobby we have. If I had a LETTER from the CHP I would share the CHP contact information with EVERYONE on this site. I also think that the CHP should determin who will get a emblem use letter.

I have owned my 1985 CHP car for 23 years and I have all the documentation on my car since it was new. If anybody has any questions on 1985 CHP cars PLEASE feel free to emal me here and I will give you my phone number if you wish. Rich

[jarhed123]

Rich I feel your pain just not as bad since I am in Florida. Wish I could help you.

[NoDrama43]

FYI Members,I am now aware that the (CHP letter) is allowing you to use the CHP emblem for display on your car. I am still waiting for a response to my post asking ANYONE on this site to give me the proper contacts at the CHP so I can get the LETTER of approval. Just as I stated in my earlier post NOBODY on this site with this letter has posted or sent me a private message with this information. WHY??? I dont understand??? I feel as though we all need to help each other with various issues we will all run into with this hobby we have. If I had a LETTER from the CHP I would share the CHP contact information with EVERYONE on this site. I also think that the CHP should determin who will get a emblem use letter.

I have owned my 1985 CHP car for 23 years and I have all the documentation on my car since it was new. If anybody has any questions on 1985 CHP cars PLEASE feel free to emal me here and I will give you my phone number if you wish. Rich

Rich,

I never had a letter from them to own the decals as I live in Ohio. I would think that Mac88 could give you the info you need. Mike C are you out here?

[Kevin]

CHP8336,
There is no conspiracy to hide this information, it is readily available through the Public Affairs office. I can't speak for Mike C. but I'm not on this site constantly nor do I have the information in my back pocket at all times so I can't answer you as quickly as you'd like.

I would suggest you contact CHP in a courteous manner, they don't owe you or any of us anything and a hostile attitude will hurt everyone. These agreements can be rescinded at any time and if you take the same attitude with them that you have in this thread:

"I want ANYONE ON THIS SITE to give me the proper contact ,at the CHP to get this letter. I want to see If ANYONE speaks up and gives me any contact information. I will bet that NOBODY will give me any contact info. I will sit back and be waiting for the response to this posting. Lets just see what happens???????"

they may be offended and not only deny you but look at the outstanding agreements. As stated by someone else the idea to help each other, not hurt them.

I've had a positive relationship with CHP for 10 years and everyone who has an agreement is very protective of it and realizes it all could go away due to one person. I have given the address to other people, but your postings scare me. I'm not trying to keep this info. a secret but I don't want it in the wrong hands either. We can discuss this more if you want to PM me.

Realistically, I don't think anyone out of state has anything to worry about by displaying decals.


ImEvil1: The agreement does authorize decal usage but it also states:

3)The vehicle is to be driven only in conjunction with appropriate public events....
4)All CHP insignia, light and equipment will be covered when the vehicle is transported on the streets or highways.

These do not specifically address driving vs. trailering but I spoke with the commander at the time and his interpretation was the cars could be driven, it was not forbidden. Like many laws, it is subject to interpretation but as I said earlier I've never been stopped and others who have are OK after showing the authorization.

[28HopUp]

Thanks for posting up Kevin. I think it helps explain the circumstances better regarding the reluctance some owners may have to share information related to CHP authorization to display their logo on former CHP cars. I agree with you, there should be no conflict with the CHP for owners who live outside of California. However those owners are still subject to the laws of their respective state, or the laws of any other state thruwhich they may be traveling with their car (ie going to a show).

There is no conspiracy to hide this information, it is readily available through the Public Affairs office. I can't speak for Mike C. but I'm not on this site constantly nor do I have the information in my back pocket at all times so I can't answer you as quickly as you'd like.

For residents of CA who need to contact the CHP for authorization, I think I bolded the right answer.

[CHP8336]

For all members here,I will contact the CHP today and get the proper info RE this thread. As soon as I get a answer I will post. Rich