Pennsylvania State Police Mustangs [Archive] - Special Service Mustang.net Forums

OSP959(R)

03-31-2011, 10:11 PM

I posted this at .org, but I'm going to re-post it here for anyone that doesn't post there...............

In the vehicle usage page it only shows PSP as having 1992 Mustangs. I know they had them in 1985.

Back around 1985 a few friends and I were taking a little road trip across IS90 in PA when I noticed a Ford Mustang come up behind me. I was in the left lane speeding. I moved over to let him pass and he came up on my left side and sat there for a couple seconds. I looked over and it was a PA State Trooper. He had a light on his dash that looked like it was mounted to a bracket that allowed him to flip it up in view when needed, and down out of sight when not. I immediately slowed down and he went ahead of me and stopped someone else.

I don't remember much about the car other than that. I just remember the officer being in uniform, the dash light flipped down in front of his dash, and the fact that he was driving an unmarked FORD MUSTANG!

I was wondering if anyone had any information on the PSP Mustangs??

Who is Fred Johnson? He's listed in the Special Service Mustang Owners Association as having a 1985 PSP SSP.

I know PSP had a Mustang on the interstate in '85. It's the only Mustang I've ever actually seen in service.

If anything, someone at least tell me who Fred Johnson is.

ImEvil1

03-31-2011, 10:18 PM

No idea on who Fred Johnson is, but there have been a few mistakes discovered over the years in the usage chart you referred to (nothing is ever perfect, right?).

Definitely could have been an SSP you saw, or a regular production coupe used in-service. We bought both (for some reason) where I work now.

OSP959(R)

03-31-2011, 10:22 PM

ImEvil1

03-31-2011, 10:26 PM

I found a possible phone number for the guy. I'm just going to try and call him myself tomorrow and see what I can find out.

I know the list isn't right. I also bet there's more out there than we know. My Frisco Texas PD car is a 1 of 1. Still has the buck tags and I've confirmed it through the PD. I'm betting there's cars out there we don't yet know about.

I saw that thread....and I'm glad you were able to confirm it. There are tons of them out there that we don't know about yet.

You are lucky to have confirmed yours (luck with some hard work on your part). Many guys have no idea what agency, if any, their cars served with. Something that is often overlooked in other discussions is that numerous governmental agencies (non-LE) and private (fleet) companies ordered these cars, too.

GSPI

03-31-2011, 10:42 PM

28HopUp

04-01-2011, 10:33 AM

My Frisco Texas PD car is a 1 of 1. Still has the buck tags and I've confirmed it through the PD. I'm betting there's cars out there we don't yet know about.

I was glad to read that you had confirmed through the Frisco PD that they used a Mustang. As Mike noted, it could have been a non-police use car bought by the city. But now you can proceed with the restoration as it was originally used. Since Frisco apparently used different markings, did you decide on a paint/marking design?

Getting back on topic -
Jim, let us know if you find out any information from the gentleman you are trying to contact.

OSP959(R)

04-01-2011, 06:00 PM

I was glad to read that you had confirmed through the Frisco PD that they used a Mustang. As Mike noted, it could have be a non-police use car bought by the city. But now you can proceed with the restoration as it was originally used. Since Frisco apparently used different markings, did you decide on a paint/marking design?

Getting back on topic -
Jim, let us know if you find out any information from the gentleman you are trying to contact.

Believe it or not, Frisco doesn't have any photos of their old Mustang. The did email me pics of what the cruisers looked like at that time, and then the (2) style changes since then.

My car went from a white marked cruiser to a black detectives car. So it's last point of service was in no way marked or equiped. FPD has 'School Resource Officer' cars that have more of a simple NYPD look with the patch on the door and Frisco Police in blue letters next to it. I feel that if the car would have been put back in service instead of sold, that's probably the direction it would have went.

I could make it a black detectives car since that's how it was last used in service, but I want to return it to its factory color.

OSP959(R)

04-05-2011, 10:33 AM

The 1985 PSP SSP Mustang lives!

I have been in touch with the owner. The only thing more fun than finding a SSP, or information on a SSP, is finding one that wasn't known to exist.

ImEvil1

04-05-2011, 10:59 AM

The 1985 PSP SSP Mustang lives!

I have been in touch with the owner. The only thing more fun than finding a SSP, or information on a SSP, is finding one that wasn't known to exist.

Good to hear...keep us posted on what you find out. Also, shoot me the VIN if you want so I can include it in the project we are working on here.

NoDrama43

04-11-2011, 10:56 PM

I almost bought that Frisco car myself.....and am glad you picked it up. It is a rare one for sure especially with the vinyl interior. I hope you can get it back in running order as it is a neat car.

clayjo

03-08-2012, 05:19 PM

Looking forward to getting to know you all as I am new to the forum. My father (Fred) and I have an 1985, what we beleive to be an unmarked SSP, Mustang that we bought in 1988 from an ex- PA detective that was never used in service. I am in the process of trying to validate it so that I can restore it.

Best,
Clay Johnson

ImEvil1

03-08-2012, 05:41 PM

Welcome to the site. Is your car an AOD by chance?

MOstang

03-08-2012, 07:21 PM

Great job with trying to pull some of these pieces together. :thumbsup:

clayjo

03-09-2012, 10:10 AM

PASP has had many unmarked cars over the years running traffic so it could have been an SSP in 1985 as most all of the cars they used were package vehicles. I don't think they had many though due to the weather conditions. Since Police in PA are not allowed to take radar unless they are PASP, many of the stealths PASP ran out there either ran radar and then paced cars for speed checks when they were mobile.

What is a package vehicle? I can tell you that our Mustang came with Ford undercoating (prob to combat PA road salt) and is all black with no cutouts or holes for lights, etc. which leads me to think it was detectives car. It does have the 140 speedometer....and a caution sticker my the shifter that reads: Do not lower windows above 140 m.p.h.

clayjo

03-09-2012, 10:10 AM

Welcome to the site. Is your car an AOD by chance?

Sorry....what is an AOD?

28HopUp

03-09-2012, 10:30 AM

Clay, a "package car" is a factory-optioned police package vehicle. A police package car could be anything from a Crown Vic, Charger, B4C Camaro, SSP Mustang, etc.

If your car is a SSP, then it would have a 6-digit DSO number listed on the door's VIN sticker. All SSP's have a 6-digit DSO, but not all 6-digit DSO cars are SSP's. Ford built regular cars and were sold with 6-digit DSO's. Your car's Buck Tags on the radiator support may contain useful information. The restoration info linked on our main page (http://www.specialservicemustang.net/) should help you identify your car.

An AOD is an automatic transmission with overdrive. ;) Post up some pictures when you can...

clayjo

03-09-2012, 10:53 AM

28HopUp

03-09-2012, 11:26 AM

Clay, another great resource for Ford fans is Marti Auto Works, who sells a Standard or Deluxe Marti Report that lists the options for a specific vehicle -

http://www.martiauto.com/reports2.cfm

These reports have been invaluable to the research we've been doing as part of our VIN Project (http://www.specialservicemustang.net/forums/showthread.php?t=3239).

ImEvil1

03-09-2012, 11:38 AM

Interesting, our car has a four-digit DSO...

"Larger orders have been seen filled via different 4 digit DSO numbers, and the numbers also varied when batches of cars with different options were ordered, such as with the 1993 Florida Highway Patrol's unmarked cars."

Hopefully ours is not fake. It is a 5 speed transmission.

Ours was definately unmarked and not used in service (we bought it in 88 with 3k on it).

I will work on getting some photos uploaded and a full description of the car's options/ features.

off the top of my head, it has:

stabilizer braces underneath
stainless steel exhaust
hurst shifter
trunk quick release button
140 certified speedo
3.08 rear
no emission control system
undercoating with blue ford logo plugs
dead pedal

Clay,

The cars could either have a 2 digit DSO, or a 6 digit DSO. Yours is 6. The quote above refers to the method that Ford used to separate the orders, which are educated guesses on our parts based on the documentation that we've seen. In the FHP example above, the special-paint (two-tone) marked cars were produced under different order numbers than the non-special paint (solid color) unmarked cars. Thus, the 4 digit order numbers are different (the last 4 of the 6 digit DSOs).

The sticker that you mention was added by someone and is not an original part of the car.

One last thing to add to what Bill said...the "package" is the Special Service Package. It isn't a "police" package as it relates to the Mustang, and Ford specifically mentions that in its' published literature.

We are looking forward to seeing your pics.

clayjo

03-09-2012, 11:42 AM

I already have a marti report. Is there something I should be looking for?

If the order type is retail, does that mean it's not anything 'special'?

I will post a picture of the ad from Hemmings from back i 88 when we bought it.

ORDER TYPE: RETAIL
DSO ITEM #: 6005
DEALER #: 44U509
FOX AUTO SALES INC
743 E HIGH ST
WAYNESBURG PA 15370
IMPORTANT DATES
ORDER DATE: 02/02/85
CAR SERIALIZED: 03/01/85
BUCKED: 03/21/85
SCHEDULED FOR BUILD: 03/25/85
ACTUALY BUILT: 03/30/85
RELEASED: 04/02/85
SOLD: 04/12/85
STATISTICS
Your car was one of:
5,005 With this Paint Code
2,492 With these Paint/Trim Codes
1,159 With these Engine/Transmission Codes
2,449 Ordered from this DSO
56,781 With LX Decor Group
For the 1985 Mustang 2-Door Sedan
Your vehicle was equipped with the following features:
- Console
- Traction-Lok Rear Axle
- Optional Axle Ratio
- P225/60VRX15 Black Sidewall Performance Tires
- Tilt Steering Wheel
- Air Conditioner - Manual
- Rear Window Defroster
- AM/FM/Cassette Stereo Radio
- LX Decor Group
- Tinted Glass
- High Output Carburetor Engine
- Five-Speed Manual Overdrive Transmission

clayjo

03-09-2012, 11:47 AM

http://www.specialservicemustang.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=3986&d=1331307839

http://www.specialservicemustang.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=3986&d=1331307839

28HopUp

03-09-2012, 11:50 AM

Mike, thanks for clarifying what I had said. I should have known better...

Clay, thanks for the pictures. That's a sweet looking 85! For your reference, here is a Standard Marti Report for a 92 SSP (I haven't seen one yet for an 85) -

http://www.specialservicemustang.net/VINlist/NC/1992NC119595/92-119595marti1.jpg

You'll note that the Special Service Option is listed. Now, it's entirely possible that errors may occur on these Marti Reports, but they are generally spot-on.

GSPI

03-09-2012, 12:09 PM

Where's the photos of the car? I don't see them Bill.

28HopUp

03-09-2012, 12:14 PM

Where's the photos of the car? I don't see them Bill.

I just edited Post #21 of this thread to make the attachment appear as a regular picture.

clayjo

03-09-2012, 12:15 PM

Bill, follow the link of my 10:47am post.

Thank you all for your patience and expertise as I try to figure out if I have something rare or just a 'knock off'. I really appreciate your time and interest.

FoxChassis

03-09-2012, 02:42 PM

Clay: You're looking at the DSO # 6005 that is just below the order type and just above the dealer number. That is the district sales office order #. That is not the domestic special order #, which is what we're talking about and is what all SSPs had. Same acronym but two different things. The domestic special order #, if it exists for any particular car, is part of the two-character region and district, also know as the district sales office. Which means the DSO would be a total of six characters. Looking at your Deluxe (Marti) Report, it would be in the "Door Data Plate Information" box and would say "_____ ordering district under domestic special order # ____" and in the image of the door sticker (above where it says DSO).

ImEvil1

03-09-2012, 03:05 PM

+1 to what Mick said. The lack of the SS option on the Marti report could be an error, since they manually look those up, but if it doesn't have a 6-digit DSO on the door tag/buck tag/buildsheet, then it isn't an SSP.

OSP959(R)

03-09-2012, 04:40 PM

The 140 Speedo doesn't look factory, and doesn't have the verified calibration label. Haven't seen any ssp evidence, but that doesn't mean an agency couldn't have used it

GSPI

03-09-2012, 06:14 PM

"Invalid Attachment specified. If you followed a valid link, please notify the administrator"

That's all I get right now. Why can't I see the photos?? I can see the Marti report though.:headscratch:

ImEvil1

03-09-2012, 06:33 PM

The 140 Speedo doesn't look factory, and doesn't have the verified calibration label. Haven't seen any ssp evidence, but that doesn't mean an agency couldn't have used it

He already stated that it wasn't used in-service and had 3k miles on it when they purchased it.

ImEvil1

03-09-2012, 06:34 PM

"Invalid Attachment specified. If you followed a valid link, please notify the administrator"

That's all I get right now. Why can't I see the photos?? I can see the Marti report though.:headscratch:

Same here, Greg. It looks like the original attachment was deleted.

GSPI

03-09-2012, 07:38 PM

Ok thanks Mike... I thought I was staring at the screen too much and missed it!!?:D

OSP959(R)

03-09-2012, 08:16 PM

He already stated that it wasn't used in-service and had 3k miles on it when they purchased it.

But the owners question is whether or not it's a SSP, not if it was used in service.

OSP959(R)

03-09-2012, 08:18 PM

Also, this car in question is the one I've been talking with the owner with for some time now.

ImEvil1

03-09-2012, 08:43 PM

But the owners question is whether or not it's a SSP, not if it was used in service.

Right. I didn't mention service use, I think that you did?

Also, this car in question is the one I've been talking with the owner with for some time now.

If you have pics, which it sounds like you may have seen at some point, can you post them up here for him? It looks like he's having trouble posting them up and the link above is dead.

OSP959(R)

03-09-2012, 09:37 PM

He already stated that it wasn't used in-service and had 3k miles on it when they purchased it.

No, you mentioned service. I was just replying to your comment.

Lets backtrack:

I had seen Fred Johnson listed as owning a 1985 Ford Mustang PSP SSP here:

http://www.sspmustang.org/ssmoa/SSMOA_Members.htm

I tracked him down and contacted and have been trying to get info.

His son Clay contacted me this pass week with this:

Hi Jim,

I wanted to get back to you regarding some of the questions that you
have asked my dad since he does not have the time or energy to invest
right now. I have taken over the vehicle and am trying to gather any
info about it to affirm whether or not I should restore it.

We bought it in 1988 with 3k miles on it I beleive from a detective in
the Pittsburg area. It was never used in service and the plastic was
still on the seats. We have a Marti report and it has a 4 digit
(6005) code which leads me to beleive it was an unmarked car. It is a
five speed with hurst shifter. the VIN is XXXXXXXXXXX194570. It also
has stablizer bars and quick release trunk button and came with no
emission control and stainless steel exhaust. The car is crazy fast.

I am happy to assist in any way with pictures or other info. Any of
your help and expertise is appreciated. I have attached a few files
for your reference.

Looking forward to hearing from you.

Regards,
Clay

Fred told me he installed those red deck lights on the package tray years ago.

ImEvil1

03-09-2012, 09:54 PM

The 140 Speedo doesn't look factory, and doesn't have the verified calibration label. Haven't seen any ssp evidence, but that doesn't mean an agency couldn't have used it

The post above was what I referenced. If your comment about an agency "using it" didn't refer to service use, my apologies.

Thanks for posting the pics, too, so we can all see what you were referring to.

GSPI

03-09-2012, 09:58 PM

Oooooo look!? I can see pictures now! What's with the early 80's hubcaps?

FoxChassis

03-10-2012, 08:46 AM

194570 is not in a consecutive batch of 5.0L coupe VINs, but it is immediately followed by two consecutive 5.0L hatchbacks

28HopUp

03-10-2012, 10:42 AM

Thanks Fox! :cool: Regardless if it is a SSP or not, that still looks like a nice notchback... :yes:

clayjo

03-22-2012, 02:40 PM

Below is the magazine ad text from 1988 when my dad purchsed from some sort of specialty Ford magazine from the second owner. I'm trying to get word from Fox Ford (the dealership in PA where delivered to from factory) who originally bought this car. Apparently the original owner was a retired PA detective.

So, should I restore it? or, part it out? What should I do?

Not sure if they are correct, but those are the wheels that it came with....

[http://i1068.photobucket.com/albums/u452/clayjo/Mustang%201985/Mustangspeedo.jpg
http://i1068.photobucket.com/albums/u452/clayjo/Mustang%201985/85MustangAd-1-1.jpg

NoDrama43

03-22-2012, 06:19 PM

clay check your pm's

clayjo

03-23-2012, 08:58 AM

Can anyone explain to me why it would have (when we got it '88, 3k) it would have no emission control system (no cats, no tubes in air cleaner, etc.), what we assume to be factory installed Hurst shifter, and ford undercoating (with blue logo plug caps). These seem to be very specific, unusual features.

GSPI

03-23-2012, 09:32 AM

They did not have factory installed Hurst shifters at the time since Hurst wasn't a supplier for Ford at the time. That would have been installed as an aftermarket item.

If memory serves me correctly, there were three different colors of plastic caps that rust proofing shops were able to use back then which were black, red and blue. Black was the standard that everyone used. I don't remember the company that would use blue as an aftermarket provider. Ford did not do factory rust proofing either as that would have been a dealer installed item due to the way cars were being built back then (similar to the way now) and could have used the different colored cap for the rust proofing. I checked my dealer books and there are no factory authorized corrosion control items as an option. They did ad a high zinc "wax" to the high corrosion areas or dog legs of the car but that was added right after the car came out of paint from the interior areas. Looks like that was a dealer installed item.

The lack of emissions would make that an off road car only which would have been done by a racer or someone building the car for racing. Someone tampered with the emissions and it was not noted with the inspection in PA from what I can tell.

Indications are that this car was to be raced due to the shifter and the emissions being removed. With the name Kaufman on the card in the photo above, that also indicates that the car was getting Kaufman performance upgrades which would be aftermarket and Ford would have not done any of that. Being that it was PA where this car came from, it would also be likely that people were "up charged" to add the "rust proofing" with the way salt would be used in the winters there. Best explanation that I've got for you.

FoxChassis

03-23-2012, 10:21 AM

The only kind of protective coating that was done at the factory was the Lower Bodyside Protection option (urethane coating, painted body color), and that was only on the lower sides of the car (below the molding) between the wheel wells, and maybe behind the rear wheels. It was not under the hood or under the car like a normal aftermarket rust proofing was. The factory books say is became standard on all models in '85 but I don't believe that to be true.

Some here might be familiar with that urethane coating, especially on cars from Canada and the Northeast states. There would have been a third buck tag saying "ROAD ABRASION" (usually repeated at least once on that tag) and an "RA" code on the other non-DSO buck tag.

GSPI

03-23-2012, 10:44 AM

Absolutely FoxChassis! The exterior coating is the one you indicated but there also was a wax seam material that was added on the interior panels around the rear wheel well areas which was what I was referring to. For reference, the body panels were all zinc coated (galvanized and many times hot dip method especially in the front fenders as it held up better) when the steel was manufactured prior to stamping. The steel in it's untreated form could stay unrusted for approximately 3 months. When the panels were stamped an additional coating was and still is added to keep them rust free until they hit the paint shop after initial assembly. Since the car was painted and had the galvanized metal there was little or no need for rust proofing as the car was designed.

The fact really was that the methods and materials were changing in the early 80's for production and people still had the misconception that they absolutely needed the aftermarket rust proofing of the 70's. My dad was one of the testers and evaluators for that wax coating process in 1972 when it was developed in Germany. Our car lasted over 6 years before the first sign of rust without the extreme use of galvanized panels which was a breakthrough in those times. This newer coating process later was used in conjunction with the galvanized panels in the early 80's and allowed for longer periods without rust.

In general, the advent of E-coating and the use of these corrosion protection methods in manufacturing actually just about destroyed the aftermarket rustproofing companies. Interesting history!

FoxChassis

03-23-2012, 02:12 PM

You must be talking about seam sealer. It is a paste-like substance that looks very similar to caulking that was applied to all cars by hand at the factory.

clayjo

03-23-2012, 02:51 PM

Well, I suppose my best guess at this point is that this car was bought by a retired (or soon to be) police officer new in 85 and performed what seems to be a few "upgrades" by...

1. Replacing the transmission with the current Hurst 'quickthrow' T-5 model
2. Removing the emission control system (apparently for more power or he knew a mechanic that would pass his emissions test for him)...a lot easier to do that back then!
3. Replacing the stock exhaust and removing the cat converters.
4. Adding chassis stiftening kit (no sure if that was factory installed)

Obviously there is no way to know if this was his personal car or if it was to be eventually used as an unmarked car. All I know is that it was obviously 'build for speed'. The officer sold it (due to a divorce my father recalls) to the gentleman that we bought it from.

Crazy to think that this car had all those mods put on when it brand new. The mystery continues.....

I will take a bunch of photos of the car in its current state and condition and will post in the Mustangs for Sale section of the forum.

28HopUp

03-23-2012, 03:06 PM

Crazy to think that this car had all those mods put on when it brand new.

Have you seen what guys are doing to their new S197 Mustangs for more power? The aftermarket is HUGE for those cars, and their level of performance is VERY impressive.

G/L with your future sale. You might also have good luck selling it on the Four Eyed Pride Forum (http://vb.foureyedpride.com/index.php).

GSPI

03-23-2012, 10:47 PM

You must be talking about seam sealer. It is a paste-like substance that looks very similar to caulking that was applied to all cars by hand at the factory.

Yes sir. Correct. It is wax like when first installed after paint.

28HopUp

03-28-2012, 09:10 AM

Some here might be familiar with that urethane coating, especially on cars from Canada and the Northeast states. There would have been a third buck tag saying "ROAD ABRASION" (usually repeated at least once on that tag) and an "RA" code on the other non-DSO buck tag.

As a follow up to the discussion on the coating, there is a 1990 SSP in our VIN Project that served in Canada -

http://www.specialservicemustang.net/VINlist/MISC/1990MISC202805/info202805.htm

You can see the word "ROAD" and "RA" on the Buck Tags. It it interesting though that the RA option isn't listed on the Marti Report.

MOstang

03-28-2012, 02:41 PM

In the vehicle usage page it only shows PSP as having 1992 Mustangs. I know they had them in 1985.

So coming full circle on this one, is it still an open question whether any 85 PA SSPs that were in-service exist?

OSP959(R)

03-28-2012, 03:29 PM

http://images49.fotki.com/v1501/photos/3/1168223/8512699/spa679-vi.jpg

Yep. The question is still wide open.

Apparently PSP was using Mustangs in the 80's (as shown above). The question now is if they were using base Mustangs or SSP's.

I now for fact I saw one around 84-85. But now I can't remember if it was a notch or a hatch.

When I moved in to the right lane to let it pass, I think I was to shocked to see a Trooper driving if first, and the fact it was a Mustang second. That and that it had a red light stuck to the front of the dash.

FoxChassis

03-28-2012, 04:26 PM

The one in the pic looks like an '80 or '81 Cobra.

chism

03-29-2012, 10:41 AM

The one in the pic looks like an '80 or '81 Cobra.

I think you might be correct. The TRX wheels on that car were the priciest wheels in the day and I doubt an agency would have sprang for them. But you never know.

OSP959(R)

03-29-2012, 01:30 PM

http://images18.fotki.com/v457/photos/3/1168223/8512699/spa678-vi.jpg

What was the price difference between a SSP, and a 5.0L coupe or GT in the 80's? If PSP was using Mustangs in the 80's, would their have been a financial benefit in purchasing one over the other?

NoDrama43

03-29-2012, 02:13 PM

ssp's were the cheapest for several reasons:

fleet sales
usually base models with minimum options
tax breaks
multi unit purchasing IE State Bid....
government agencies took bids for the lowest price per unit from multiple car manufacturers.

PA may have used a mustang in the early 80's, but I bet it was for a promotional purpose, or a car donated. My department currently has a mustang in the fleet. A six cylinder car donated by a local car dealer.