Restoring an SSP in Different Agency than Original?

[90Coupe]

I would like to have some honest opinions / feedback from you guys, and of specific note I have thick skin so have it.

I have an 87 FHP car that is quite rough and has been beat on. None of the original interior can be reused except for the AC vents, the rest have either been painted, destroyed or missing. The body is straight, but has two cheap paint jobs over the top of the original. I will need to replace the drivers side full floor pan due to a couple of rust holes in the cowl area, plus the repair of the cowl area. Of course then all of the normal resto work throughout to freshen everything back to showable standards.

I live in a rural town in Alabama less than 20 miles from Pensacola, I do alot of shows, parades and cruises in Florida with my other Mustangs. As most know the FHP gets really upset and also has statutes that prohibit against the operation of a car on Florida roads with the FHP paint scheme, however I believe from info on this board that no one has ever been prosecuted.

From my goodie pile of parts I can build a "tribute" Alabama DPS car with FHP style radios, radar, etc. I have a good blue interior that would only require a cleaning and installation. I have several current and retired Alabama troopers as freinds for info sources and there are no restrictions in Alabama beyond the basic common sense stuff of no markings and blue lights on the road. There are many very nice FHP cars out there for sale currently, some great cars at fair prices.

So given the novel I have written above, what would you guys say to someone (me) restoring and marking a car in Alabama livery versus the original FHP that it is.

[ImEvil1]

I say do whatever makes you happy. There are a ton of FHP cars out there, so it's not like it's the rarest of rare to begin with (although there seems to be fewer of the pre-'90 FHP cars surfacing).

I took issue with the cloning of an '86 GSP awhile back...since the car used in the process was probably one of the only surviving '86 Colorado cars out there (probably 1 of 10 ordered that year). Personally, I don't care for clones, but I definitely understand someone wanting to be different, or doing it to save getting hassled, etc.

[Andy]

It's your car and you can do what ever you want to it








Ok wait for it...........wait for it..............Wait

ok





it's kind a like a gender Re Assignment thing (or no thing) :-(
like the Chaz Bono of SSP Mustangs
I would rather you find four cylinder coupe and Create a
Tribute car from that.

[28HopUp]

Personally, I do not care for clone cars, but it is your car to do with however you please. I don't object because it's a loss of a SSP. The FHP cars are more plentiful, so turning it into a clone of another agency is not the worst thing in the world.

My reason for not liking clones comes from my experience taking my SSP out in public and answering the inevitable questions that come up. In most cases, they will ask me if it is/was a real police car (or Highway Patrol car when I display it with the magnets). People WILL ask you if your SSP is/was an Alabama State Police car. If you don't mind telling people that it is a cloned car, then by all means don't let that stop you. Although you should do what makes you happy, you MAY get tired of telling folks that it was a FHP that you made into an Alabama SSP. It would bug me, but only you can determine if that would be a problem for you.

In terms of the restoration, if you are going to make it an Alabama cloned SSP, then I would suggest doing all that you can to make it as accurate as possible. You can sell your FHP equipment to help pay for new Alabama-specific parts. If you're gonna go that far then do it right IMO.

[NoDrama43]

I sold my 92 FHP car because I went to a show where there were seven other marked FHP cars. I did not like being one in a crowd of identical cars. Kinda like going to an MCA show and parking your green Bullitt in line with 45 other green bullitts. Doesn't do anything for me.

You attend shows in Florida but are concerned about the state's laws regarding your car, yet you live in Alabama and want to build an Alabama car?? Seems to me that is just moving the same problem across the state line to where you live. The fact it needs an entire new interior, paint, and lots - o - work is irrelevant because you will do that when creating a fake Alabama car anyway.

Tribute cars are commonly referred to as clone cars which are commonly referred to as clown cars. Regardless of what others may say (in an effort to be politically correct) clown cars are generally looked down upon by enthusiasts that have made the effort to restore an SSP back to correct Agency/conditions etc.

The car isn't an Alabama car. If you want an Alabama car you should find one to restore. FHP cars are a dime a dozen, so I understand why you want something different. But clowning the car is a huge mistake in my opinion.

[copcamaro]

Personally, I do not care for clone cars, but it is your car to do with however you please. I don't object because it's a loss of a SSP. The FHP cars are more plentiful, so turning it into a clone of another agency is not the worst thing in the world.

My reason for not liking clones comes from my experience taking my SSP out in public and answering the inevitable questions that come up. In most cases, they will ask me if it is/was a real police car (or Highway Patrol car when I display it with the magnets). People WILL ask you if your SSP is/was an Alabama State Police car. If you don't mind telling people that it is a cloned car, then by all means don't let that stop you. Although you should do what makes you happy, you MAY get tired of telling folks that it was a FHP that you made into an Alabama SSP. It would bug me, but only you can determine if that would be a problem for you.

In terms of the restoration, if you are going to make it an Alabama cloned SSP, then I would suggest doing all that you can to make it as accurate as possible. You can sell your FHP equipment to help pay for new Alabama-specific parts. If you're gonna go that far then do it right IMO.


Agree totally with this one.
I never fails (for me anyway) every show someone will ask the questions
Is it a real trooper car.
Answer!! Yes

How do you get by with those hardmarked decals and all that police Eq.
Answer! I cover all decals , disconnect the electrical to Eq. and remove the lightbar.

If it were me!!!!! redo it to agency specs, but be aware of that Fl. state and their rules, cause if you don't, worse case senerio! you could lose the car.
Thats why I always tell people it is better to live in a different state than the one which the car was stationed.

No matter which way you go, it's yours and have fun restoring!!
Good luck!!

[28HopUp]

Tribute cars are commonly referred to as clone cars which are commonly referred to as clown cars. Regardless of what others may say (in an effort to be politically correct) clown cars are generally looked down upon by enthusiasts that have made the effort to restore an SSP back to correct Agency/conditions etc.

The car isn't an Alabama car. If you want an Alabama car you should find one to restore. FHP cars are a dime a dozen, so I understand why you want something different. But clowning the car is a huge mistake in my opinion.

Jim, I realize that enthusiasts have a different definition for various terms in the car hobby. For the benefit of Ron/90Coupe and others, let me put out the terms for consideration/discussion.

I consider a clone to be an authentic re-creation of an existing vehicle. This can be done tastefully, IMO, but not everyone will appreciate a vehicle like this. Twenty years ago, people would not identify a classic muscle car as a clone - they would call it a fake. Since then, the concept has become more acceptable by calling them clones.

A tribute car, to me, is creating something unique that never existed. For example, I have a friend who built a 2005 GT350 tribute car (http://www.mustangcollective.com/showthread.php?t=35863). Ford/Shelby never built a GT350 on that platform, but the car honors the heritage of those original vehicles. I know another member at that forum who made himself a beautiful 2005 Mach I (again, another model that does not exist on the S197 platform). The concept of a tribute vehicle can work extrememly well on certain cars.

In terms of SSP's, a tribute car can quickly become what is called by many as a clown car. There is a thread on copcar.com (I would link it, but you have to be a member there to see it) where the police equipment in a 1962 Belvedere includes a computer keyboard and radar gun. I will attach those pictures to this post. Another example of clowning around would be to add additional lighting/LED's to a restoration on a car that never used them. That's why I suggested that the OP be as accurate as possible in the restoration if he builds it as a Alabama clone.

Putting on my Moderator hat for a moment, I would like to add that I appreciate the civil discussion on the subject matter. We may not all share the same opinion on certain subjects, but we do share a common passion for these cars and tend to treat others with respect when discussing things. I like that!

[Andy]

If i could just add one more thing to my first post!
At a car show it's confusing to people already that you have
a marked police car and for the most part they are all ears
with questions. Now throw into the mix this. Well it's really
NOT a Georgia car it's a Florida car that i want to look like
a Georgia car! Remember they already think your a little different
to have restored a Police car ......and you did.
just not the correct agency.
Send in the clowns! i'm done
http://www.messengerpuppet.com/_Photos/ed11.jpg

[mac88chp]

If i could just add one more thing to my first post!
At a car show it's confusing to people already that you have
a marked police car and for the most part they are all ears
with questions. Now throw into the mix this. Well it's really
NOT a Georgia car it's a Florida car that i want to look like
a Georgia car! Remember they already think your a little different
to have restored a Police car ......and you did.
just not the correct agency.Very good point. It is just much more satisfying in the long run to have a car that is authentic and done right. Restoration is not cheap and ends up costing the same whether you do a "tribute" car or the real deal. If what you have to work with isn't quite what you really want to own then you may want to seriously consider selling your current project and finding an alternative one before any serious time and money gets committed.

[calimustang]

Guys,

thanks for bringing this subject up, i was going to make a thread about this for a while but you beat me to it, since my SSP is unknown at this point besides bucktag saying Ocala, FL and nobody is familiar with this SSP so what can i do at this point? Restore it to its original colors and etc but what agency? I'll be paying a visit to Gainesville area PD's and Ocala PD's soon and see if i hit gold there but my gut feelings says no. I've considered about making it an tribute SSP in honor of all LEO's (current and retired) for protecting us.

[ChrisL]

I have to agree with some of the statements above, the car should really be restored to its original livery.

A) Part of the hobby, in my opinion, is wanting a specific agency and turning over every rock you can to find one... or finding an SSP, researching it's history, finding out which agency it was, and restoring it back. I wanted an '86 TX DPS for a long time, while I could have bought many other '86 SSPs and just cloned it, that wouldn't have been authentic.

B) Having to explain to people at car shows, fellow hobbiests, a potential buyer down the road, or anyone for that matter that although it's really an FHP, you cloned it to an Alabama, etc etc would really be a blow to the car's integrity and probably your ego. You want the car to wear it's colors loud and proud, and being masked in the wrong agency's colors discredits the whole thing in my opinion.

That being said, I'm just as hard on every car, not just SSPs. I hate walking up to a car, seeing 2R (Bright Red) on the door tag and for some reason the car is silver, black, blue... whatever it is. Even if it is nicely done, I can't shake the thought out of my mind that the car is now a bit phony... even if well done.

I understand that sourcing and restoring an Alabama car might be hard work, or that you can't afford it which might be the case, but to me that just means "the search goes on" for the perfect Alabama car to restore. Maybe you don't find one that fits your budget this year, so you save up money and parts and keep searching and find it next year. If money isn't a concern, even better. Sell the FHP and wait to pull the trigger on the next Bama car that comes along.

Just my $.02

[GSPI]

Hmmm what to say without sounding contradictory?

There are too many SSP's and plenty of photographic and historical information out there to really not make it the original department that it came from in my opinion. The part of the hobby where I come from there is no longer that type of availability of the documented sedans from the 50's, 60's, and 70's like it was in the past so many vehicles get cloned now and at one point we were having this exact discussion at least 15 years ago... and after 15 years those cars that were available then are now gone and the granny mobiles are taking over and the restorations are very tough to come by if you are restoring an actual package car from the 1940's on to the late 1970's as they are almost nonexistent and tough to find information on what they were and how they were put together first hand. I have been lucky enough to document vehicles into the 1930's through interviews and photographs for the Cleveland PD but it's a rare bird to find in many departments that cars have come from in the past. I will not be able to find too many Cleveland cars in existence unless they are of the newer material in the later model cars and everything else is a clone that is available to me. I have two vehicles that I've put together that are package cars with different histories and have been depicted as Cleveland cars as there are no more out there at all and they were not preserved. I don't really have a choice in this matter for CPD... however, the SSP Mustang owner has plenty of choices right now is my point. Do it while the history is still available and fresh.

See what happens in the future, the SSP's that are around today and being saved by those of us hobbyists will allow for better historical preservation of these cars as has not been the case in the past.... but mark my words, the cloning of these cars will become more prevalent once the cars become scarce and the information on them wanes to nothing.

[90Coupe]

Thanks for all of your feedback, as I suspected most are of the opinion to stay with the original agency colors, markings and equipment. Honestly I feel thats the right thing to do, but given the position of the FHP and my proximity to Florida I thought an Alabama car would be less of a hassle, fun and different.
I intend to press on with an accurate FHP restoration with this car, and who knows somewhere down the road another member of the SSP community will want this car and an Alabama or Georgia car will become available for me.

[NoDrama43]

Nice discussion everyone !!

I agree with the OP decision to stay FHP. :)