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View Full Version : 1984 FHP, Tom Tate's old car


predator20
06-01-2007, 08:22 PM
I don't want to talk about this one.
http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthread.php?t=46483

ImEvil1
06-01-2007, 09:21 PM
Glad to see it wasn't modded. Asking price isn't too out of line, but everyone here knows what he said he originally paid.

FlyinTiger
06-01-2007, 09:47 PM
Alright, those who were ready to ante up before, here's your chance to save this one again. If, in fact, it is a $5K car all day long, then the price is not that far off, even though he will be doubling his money. :(

ImEvil1
06-01-2007, 10:05 PM
Alright, those who were ready to ante up before, here's your chance to save this one again. If, in fact, it is a $5K car all day long, then the price is not that far off, even though he will be doubling his money. :(

Not quite doubling his money ($3500 paid), but still quite a profit for two months of ownership. (and it's the principle of the thing)

I just spoke with Nodrama, who is in Michigan and and on his way back with another SSP. I doubt he'll be in a position to buy this one now (he would have last month, though).

NoDrama43
06-02-2007, 09:16 AM
its a great car guys. he didn't hack it which is great .....now someone (other than me) needs to save the car and restore it. I would have last month but I fell off a table into a big fat tub of ice cream ;) a couple of days ago and have something else in progress now....

davidmidgley
06-02-2007, 01:46 PM
I don't see $5K. I see maybe $3500 on a good day. If he did a good paint job, yes. Old paint on the outside, that needs to be taken off then repaint. But it looks like crap, filthy even under the hood. Nothing new under there either, is there? The interior and the fact that the parts are all there, gets it to maybe $3750. Several other 1984 SSPs out there, aren't there?

FlyinTiger
06-02-2007, 08:27 PM
There are not many '84 anythings ( FHP, CHP, DPS, etc. ). Yes, there are some out there, but have fun finding one and one that is for sale. The $5K estimate came from a combined value of the car plus the buttload of NOS parts that were coming with it. It depends on how many of the NOS parts are still going with the car.

ImEvil1
06-02-2007, 08:50 PM
There are not many '84 anythings ( FHP, CHP, DPS, etc. ). Yes, there are some out there, but have fun finding one and one that is for sale. The $5K estimate came from a combined value of the car plus the buttload of NOS parts that were coming with it. It depends on how many of the NOS parts are still going with the car.

There are certainly more '84s floating around than '82s or '83s, but anything pre-1987 is rare these days.

Bottom line on this one is the guy paid $3500 for it, and we tried to bring him on board here to see it restored (unsuccessfully). At least he didn't mod it out, as he originally planned, and that's a good thing. Maybe another SSP enthusiast will buy it.

It's only worth what someone is willing to pay for it, and I don't see anyone here standing in line to give the guy $5400 for it (or anything close to that). I don't think any of the members on FEP will be, either. One guy over there recently bought an 106K mile original '82 coupe for $300. I guess we'll see where it ends up.

guerro
06-02-2007, 09:04 PM
What happened to Tom Tate ?

ImEvil1
06-02-2007, 09:18 PM
What happened to Tom Tate ?

Mike R. booted him from .org awhile back due to a PM he received that he didn't like.

He never attempted to register here.

sspmustang
06-03-2007, 12:44 PM
No, actually, that's not what happened-perhaps you should refrain from stating as such unless you know the facts. If you need clarification feel free to ask Jim.

ImEvil1
06-03-2007, 01:15 PM
No, actually, that's not what happened-perhaps you should refrain from stating as such unless you know the facts. If you need clarification feel free to ask Jim.

No, thanks. Whatever your problem is with Tom is yours, not mine. Same goes for Jim.

NoDrama43
06-03-2007, 03:09 PM
What happened to Tom Tate ?

its not worthy of discussion or comment. you can contact him at
ttate2@tampabay.rr.com if you want. In light of recent emails I (and others) have received from him, and comments made in ebay auctions, I do not believe he wants to be a member of org. or net. You would need to contact him directly to find out though.

NoDrama43
06-03-2007, 03:13 PM
No, actually, that's not what happened-perhaps you should refrain from stating as such unless you know the facts. If you need clarification feel free to ask Jim.


the only clarification I can offer is the numerous emails forwarded to me by several individuals when things got ugly. I prefer to not get involved because believe me it is pointless and the hobby is better off without the distraction.

lets let this one die fellers........

svopaul
06-03-2007, 06:47 PM
Glad to see it wasn't modded. Asking price isn't too out of line, but everyone here knows what he said he originally paid.


It does have a Tremec in it now according to the ad......but what he paid really doesn't matter when you consider this....Go out and find another one like it....you can't. If someone wants an '84 FHP car then what he paid means nothing.

I originally paid $4K for my '69 Spoiler II.....no chance in hell I'd let it go right now for even 5 times that much....same thing applies...find another one.

predator20
06-03-2007, 07:15 PM
It does have a Tremec in it now according to the ad......but what he paid really doesn't matter when you consider this....Go out and find another one like it....you can't. If someone wants an '84 FHP car then what he paid means nothing.

I originally paid $4K for my '69 Spoiler II.....no chance in hell I'd let it go right now for even 5 times that much....same thing applies...find another one.

Is a '84 FHP is as rare or desirable as a '69 Spoiler II, I don't think so. So the same thing doesn't apply. Another '84 FHP would be a lot easier to find than a '69 Spoiler II. When Tom was selling I wouldn't have mind getting because it was at a decent price. But for $5400, I would find something I like better.

svopaul
06-03-2007, 07:21 PM
Is a '84 FHP is as rare or desirable as a '69 Spoiler II, I don't think so. So the same thing doesn't apply. Another '84 FHP would be a lot easier to find than a '69 Spoiler II. When Tom was selling I wouldn't have mind getting because it was at a decent price. But for $5400, I would find something I like better.


Well that's not really the point but it is extremely difficult to find one in that shape regardless. It's not like you can pick up the auto trader or Ebay and find a half dozen of these to choose from. If the guy "Needs" to sell it then he will negotiate...if not then he will stick to what he wants.....in the end it belongs to him and it's his choice on what price he names...there is no law or guideline out there that dictates people have to sell a car for what or close to what they paid for it. Sure it would be nice but in reality it very rarely happens. I'm just shining a realistic light on this.....

ImEvil1
06-03-2007, 07:59 PM
I'll shine some more realistic light....

The guys over at FEP, for the most part, do not care that the car is an SSP. What the guy did is come to a website that does care, proceed to tell everyone what he paid, and then try to flip the car for a quick profit. IIRC, people here offered to buy the car for a reasonable return on the guys' investment, but he declined. I wish him well on his sale, but I don't see it selling very quickly at the price he has it listed at.

What he's doing isn't that much different than the guy who paid $5 for the '85-'86 centercaps. $2k is a big difference in 2 months. Just my humble opinion.

There isn't a huge market for an '84 FHP, either.

ImEvil1
06-03-2007, 08:01 PM
No, actually, that's not what happened-perhaps you should refrain from stating as such unless you know the facts.

Speaking of facts,

I just read through your updated FHP document. Do you know where I can find some rubber bands for my Jetsonic?:bouncy:

sspmustang
06-03-2007, 08:23 PM
No, thanks. Whatever your problem is with Tom is yours, not mine. Same goes for Jim.

Good, then that means you won't feel the need to comment in the future.

sspmustang
06-03-2007, 08:24 PM
Speaking of facts,

I just read through your updated FHP document. Do you know where I can find some rubber bands for my Jetsonic?:bouncy:

As a matter of fact, I do.

ImEvil1
06-03-2007, 08:26 PM
Good, then that means you won't feel the need to comment in the future.

You are the one who actually commented....I just answered someone's question (Where is Tom Tate?).

ImEvil1
06-03-2007, 08:40 PM
As a matter of fact, I do.

For the misinformed:

Here is a pic of the rotator assembly and motor from a Jetsonic. The drive gear from the motor is almost 2 feet away from the furthest set of driven rotator gears, which obviously do not run on rubber bands, nor could they ever (they are chain-driven). Not to mention, you have to completely disassemble the bar to get to these components.

Unmrkd
06-03-2007, 09:08 PM
If you two don't play nice I'm going to make you sit on the couch and hold hands for 30 minutes. :D Enough already - move on.

ImEvil1
06-03-2007, 10:46 PM
If you two don't play nice I'm going to make you sit on the couch and hold hands for 30 minutes. :D Enough already - move on.

My apologies, Gregg, and to anyone else who was offended (including Mike).

The rubber band comment, along with several other inaccuracies posted in that FHP document, have bothered me for awhile (actually since it was originally put online last year). The fact that the information wasn't changed is one of the reasons why this website even exists.

No one person is right 100% of the time. I do feel that we have a responsibility to put out the best, most correct information that we can, in an effort to help others who are learning about these cars, or trying to actually restore one. Misinformation, such as this rubber band nonsense, does nothing to help further our cause and only serves to hurt what we've worked so hard to achieve.

Ok...I'm now moving on.

Unmrkd
06-04-2007, 07:21 AM
Response duly noted and appreciated. Thank you.

svopaul
06-04-2007, 09:17 AM
I'll shine some more realistic light....

The guys over at FEP, for the most part, do not care that the car is an SSP. What the guy did is come to a website that does care, proceed to tell everyone what he paid, and then try to flip the car for a quick profit. IIRC, people here offered to buy the car for a reasonable return on the guys' investment, but he declined. I wish him well on his sale, but I don't see it selling very quickly at the price he has it listed at.

What he's doing isn't that much different than the guy who paid $5 for the '85-'86 centercaps. $2k is a big difference in 2 months. Just my humble opinion.

There isn't a huge market for an '84 FHP, either.

Mike, you are right for the most part about FEP but there are a lot of purists there...just not SSP purists.

To be fair, the guy did NOT come here to flip the car....he did come here but the way I saw things go down was that everyone expressed to him how rare the car was and how he should not modify it....at THAT time he threw a price out and at that time he really didn't intend to sell it. To be fair...it's a natural reaction for a human being after being told how rare/valuable a car is to name a higher price when asked to sell instead of keep and modify.

I'll agree that he may have a hard time selling the car....'84 models just aren't that desireable and the only reason this one is to some is because of it's history. I think realistically the car is worth $4,000...maybe $4500 as it sits....and that may be a different story if he is not including all the NOS parts that he got with the car.

You can't really compare him fairly to the guy with the center caps because the guy with the caps bought them with the sole intention of reselling them....this guy bought the car because he wanted it and wanted one to modify....not to just flip it. It was only after he was read the riot act that he even put a price on it in the first place.....as for the sale at this time, who knows why he put it up for sale but it should be obvious to him that he is not going to sell it quickly for the money he is asking.

No, you are right...there is not a huge market for the 84 FHP's....but what little market there is right now doesn't exactly have a lot of choices should someone desire to own one.

Now I don't have a stake in or don't really care about the car or what he sells or does not sell it for....but I do see both sides of this whole scenario having watched it unfold. I did for a short time consider buying that car when I saw it on ebay but only to clean it up and resell it to make a little money since it was so cheap....I wonder if I had how I would have been treated because my intent would have been to save the car from the wrong hands AND make myself a few bucks which I can't see anything wrong with since we are in America. You have to sit back and look at the situation as it unfolded for what it is....there is blame for everyone here to a certain extent, nobody involved is lilly white.....and there is nothing wrong with that, it's life but you have to be realistic and honest about the whole thing.

ImEvil1
06-04-2007, 10:16 AM
Mike, you are right for the most part about FEP but there are a lot of purists there...just not SSP purists.

To be fair, the guy did NOT come here to flip the car....he did come here but the way I saw things go down was that everyone expressed to him how rare the car was and how he should not modify it....at THAT time he threw a price out and at that time he really didn't intend to sell it. To be fair...it's a natural reaction for a human being after being told how rare/valuable a car is to name a higher price when asked to sell instead of keep and modify.

I'll agree that he may have a hard time selling the car....'84 models just aren't that desireable and the only reason this one is to some is because of it's history. I think realistically the car is worth $4,000...maybe $4500 as it sits....and that may be a different story if he is not including all the NOS parts that he got with the car.

You can't really compare him fairly to the guy with the center caps because the guy with the caps bought them with the sole intention of reselling them....this guy bought the car because he wanted it and wanted one to modify....not to just flip it. It was only after he was read the riot act that he even put a price on it in the first place.....as for the sale at this time, who knows why he put it up for sale but it should be obvious to him that he is not going to sell it quickly for the money he is asking.

No, you are right...there is not a huge market for the 84 FHP's....but what little market there is right now doesn't exactly have a lot of choices should someone desire to own one.

Now I don't have a stake in or don't really care about the car or what he sells or does not sell it for....but I do see both sides of this whole scenario having watched it unfold. I did for a short time consider buying that car when I saw it on ebay but only to clean it up and resell it to make a little money since it was so cheap....I wonder if I had how I would have been treated because my intent would have been to save the car from the wrong hands AND make myself a few bucks which I can't see anything wrong with since we are in America. You have to sit back and look at the situation as it unfolded for what it is....there is blame for everyone here to a certain extent, nobody involved is lilly white.....and there is nothing wrong with that, it's life but you have to be realistic and honest about the whole thing.

Paul,

Glad we can agree. $4000-$4500 IMHO as well.

BTW, the guy with the center caps needed 4 for his car (1986 CSP), then sold the rest of the ones he found for crazy prices. He didn't buy them soley to resell.

NoDrama43
06-04-2007, 10:17 AM
You can't really compare him fairly to the guy with the center caps because the guy with the caps bought them with the sole intention of reselling them....this guy bought the car because he wanted it and wanted one to modify....not to just flip it. It was only after he was read the riot act that he even put a price on it in the first place.....as for the sale at this time, who knows why he put it up for sale but it should be obvious to him that he is not going to sell it quickly for the money he is asking.

The original conversation started here because the guy posted on 4ep he had the car and was going to mod it. on 4ep the membership (ncluding moderators), promote, and commend their members who take pristine, low option, or otherwise rare cars and mod them beyond return. the guy was told when he bought the car how rare it was and WHAT it was. he didn't just learn that by accident, he learned it from Tom Tate. he is selling the car because he respects its heritage and has realized it needs to be restored, part of which he learned by the "reception" he got here. i will admit I went a litle overboard on him at first but I was responding in general to the situation due to my experience with the "Hackership" policies at 4ep.

bottom line the car is for sale. it needs to be saved and if it isn't then when it eventually gets hacked and raced we won't have the right to bitch about it.
as for him selling it, he has a right to ask what he wants, and we have a right to have an opinion about his motives. If I had the cash I would have the car, but it is out of the question for me right now. ANYONE that wants to buy this car can store it in my building until you are ready to work on it, (if space is an issue) Bernie are you listening?????????? :)

ImEvil1
06-04-2007, 10:30 AM
The original conversation started here because the guy posted on 4ep he had the car and was going to mod it. on 4ep the membership (ncluding moderators), promote, and commend their members who take pristine, low option, or otherwise rare cars and mod them beyond return. the guy was told when he bought the car how rare it was and WHAT it was. he didn't just learn that by accident, he learned it from Tom Tate. he is selling the car because he respects its heritage and has realized it needs to be restored, part of which he learned by the "reception" he got here. i will admit I went a litle overboard on him at first but I was responding in general to the situation due to my experience with the "Hackership" policies at 4ep.

bottom line the car is for sale. it needs to be saved and if it isn't then when it eventually gets hacked and raced we won't have the right to bitch about it.
as for him selling it, he has a right to ask what he wants, and we have a right to have an opinion about his motives. If I had the cash I would have the car, but it is out of the question for me right now. ANYONE that wants to buy this car can store it in my building until you are ready to work on it, (if space is an issue) Bernie are you listening?????????? :)


Very nicely said (I almost see an apology to the guy in there, too). :)

Let's hope someone buys it.

sspmustang
06-04-2007, 11:24 AM
You are the one who actually commented....I just answered someone's question (Where is Tom Tate?).
No, I believe you did, without knowing what the situation was..perhaps it should not have been mentioned at all, or suggested someone could have asked me.

sspmustang
06-04-2007, 11:36 AM
My apologies, Gregg, and to anyone else who was offended (including Mike).

The rubber band comment, along with several other inaccuracies posted in that FHP document, have bothered me for awhile (actually since it was originally put online last year). The fact that the information wasn't changed is one of the reasons why this website even exists.

No one person is right 100% of the time. I do feel that we have a responsibility to put out the best, most correct information that we can, in an effort to help others who are learning about these cars, or trying to actually restore one. Misinformation, such as this rubber band nonsense, does nothing to help further our cause and only serves to hurt what we've worked so hard to achieve.

Ok...I'm now moving on.

As far as the FHP document, if you felt there were 'inaccuracies' then perhaps a suggestion may have been noted, which I would gladly have adopted. The rubber bands do not replace the chain, they are used around the rotators. I listed the info based on someone who drove the cars while in service and is now in fleet maintenance. Of course with no mention of correction then one can only live with what's there. I too am interested in accuracy which is why I've spent as much time on it as I have. I'm sorry to hear it's of such little value and that my efforts have hurt the hobby as much as they have.

ImEvil1
06-04-2007, 02:22 PM
As far as the FHP document, if you felt there were 'inaccuracies' then perhaps a suggestion may have been noted, which I would gladly have adopted. The rubber bands do not replace the chain, they are used around the rotators. I listed the info based on someone who drove the cars while in service and is now in fleet maintenance. Of course with no mention of correction then one can only live with what's there. I too am interested in accuracy which is why I've spent as much time on it as I have. I'm sorry to hear it's of such little value and that my efforts have hurt the hobby as much as they have.

Mike,

Apparently you missed the "moving on" portion of this thread.

Go back and read your emails. You'll see one from me dated 08/28/2005, which lists several issues with the document, before the document was posted online. These issues were never corrected (or addressed, save for the relay board in the Jetsonic bar). If you can't find that email, I'll be happy to post it here.

You have a responsibility to verify the veracity of the information published on your website. Blindly taking what one employee tells you, and posting it up for the masses, is nothing more than what I described. It's not true research, nor documentation, and it only hurts all of us in the long run.

BTW...Whelen Dashmasters are still self-contained strobes that do not require a power supply in order to operate. Rubber bands, on any Jetsonic, is pure nonsense. If you had actually seen any of this equipment (as you've claimed) you would already know this. Everyone else who has does know.

This one has run its' course.