MCA Question

[ImEvil1]

Originally Posted by bonafide

Please dont pretend you know what you're talking about. I can scan our policy manual as it pertains to equipment for vehicles as well, and as I already pointed out - BY PERSONAL EXPERIENCE - there is not an absolute when dealing/ordering from suppliers and manufacturers for equipment. It is impossible to produce large numbers of fleet cars EXACTLY the same for consecutive years. There WILL be inconsistencies. All you're showing me by trying to use a copy of SOP, is that you have NEVER been in Law Enforcement.

Why should I search something I've personally lived thru and dealt with - and continue to deal with? I've been IN the Mustang hobby world since the early 80s and IN Law Enforcement for 22 yrs - as well as owning a NEW 1991 SSP in 1991. You guys have this standpoint that you know every thing concerning (cop)cars and the fact remains, you are not the be all to end all when it comes to them and the hobby. Well, other than your reputations as a group proceeds you. Absolutely amazes me when someone counters yalls opinions, it dips from your end to insults and condescension.

There were no insults, and it seems that you brought alot of attitude here with you from the start.

I've been in LE for 18+ years. I also drove an SSP in-service. I still own a 1993 Mustang that I bought new. Does that make me an expert? I don't think so.

Maybe it's you who should take a step back and think about what you say, and how you say it, on a website that you joined two months ago.

If you're here to make a positive contribution, then by all means do so....if you are here to stir things up and start trouble, I'll happily show you the door.

Do some research on the Federal CC1 and maybe you might learn a little something. We learn things here on a regular basis.

[NoDrama43]

Originally Posted by bonafide

Please dont pretend you know what you're talking about. I can scan our policy manual as it pertains to equipment for vehicles as well, and as I already pointed out - BY PERSONAL EXPERIENCE - there is not an absolute when dealing/ordering from suppliers and manufacturers for equipment. It is impossible to produce large numbers of fleet cars EXACTLY the same for consecutive years. There WILL be inconsistencies. All you're showing me by trying to use a copy of SOP, is that you have NEVER been in Law Enforcement.

Why should I search something I've personally lived thru and dealt with - and continue to deal with? I've been IN the Mustang hobby world since the early 80s and IN Law Enforcement for 22 yrs - as well as owning a NEW 1991 SSP in 1991. You guys have this standpoint that you know every thing concerning (cop)cars and the fact remains, you are not the be all to end all when it comes to them and the hobby. Well, other than your reputations as a group proceeds you. Absolutely amazes me when someone counters yalls opinions, it dips from your end to insults and condescension.

Bonifide,

Our reputation as a group? You must be talking about the majority of SSP owners since most of the members here are members of both net and org. I merely corrected an incorrect statement you made. On another topic (since you brought it up) there are numerous members here (myself included) that are career LEO's. We just don't feel the need to try and impress everyone with all the yappity yap....... You are not going to impress anyone here touting your job experience.

" All you're showing me by trying to use a copy of SOP, is that you have NEVER been in Law Enforcement." another incorrect statement......and you owe Evil an apology.

If you want to contribute in a positive way that is great. This is a great site, with very little drama which is the way we plan on keeping it. It's your choice.

[1989 Tx DPS SSP]

The 45th Show was not your typical MCA Show. Tony S. and I have been wondering since 1998 on how our cars should fit into the MCA Judging. Saleen has ther own class and rules but even there are some conflicts on how a car was optioned from Saleen. Now we get thrown into whatever Class the Head Judge at the MCA Show feels. When we were in Oklahoma we had 5 -6 Cars scattered everywhere. This is due to the level of Restoration or Class that a owner feels he or she can go against. Concourse, Daily Driven,or Occasionally driven. I love my car but I could not compete against a car that is a concourse level restoration such as Aarons Alabama car. I drive my a lot and it shows. I agree it is nice to be able to park together at shows but it can be a heartache for judges at some of the National Shows. I think as far as Police Equipment is concered it should be based upon how clean install it is. But we known from pictures even alot of the installs from the agencies were not that clean. Everyone had there own way of doing things.

Tom

[jarhed123]

Originally Posted by bonafide

Please don’t pretend you know what you're talking about. I can scan our policy manual as it pertains to equipment for vehicles as well, and as I already pointed out - BY PERSONAL EXPERIENCE - there is not an absolute when dealing/ordering from suppliers and manufacturers for equipment. It is impossible to produce large numbers of fleet cars EXACTLY the same for consecutive years. There WILL be inconsistencies. All you're showing me by trying to use a copy of SOP, is that you have NEVER been in Law Enforcement.

Originally Posted by bonafide

I've been IN the Mustang hobby world since the early 80s and IN Law Enforcement for 22 yrs - ...you are not the be all to end all when it comes to them and the hobby. Well, other than your reputations as a group proceeds you.

I did not want to get into it with the differences of opinions here but bonafied you have struck a cord here, not only with me and the ones that have responded but with others who will not post. While your department might not be uniformed that is true for more than half of all departments in the U.S. because they give the individual officer the option to place their equipment where they want (i.e. FHP and my own Sheriff's Office) and the need to keep cost down.

I have restored a FHP car and for the most part all the equipment needed was found relatively easy and with the help of forum members. I am in the process of restoring an '85 CHP car and the equipment is so much harder to get because it was specifically made for CHP. I just can't use some equipment that another department ordered for backwoods PD. I have also owned Jim Young's old unit 9067 which he restored. That was a 1992 SSP and there was a hard line in equipment differences because CHP stopped the placing of the old style equipment on the newer cars. They did not mix match like most other departments would have.

I two have been into Mustangs for over 20 years and in Law Enforcement for 13. This makes no difference as we all know a one year rooky in a bad city has much more experience then a 20 officer in a slow and lazy town. We respect both officers for the job they do and the disaster that both have the potential of enduring but the years of experience or where they work will not help them with the knowledge of what the SOP or what the standard is or isn't with other departments, only theirs.

Originally Posted by ImEvil1

...Does that make me an expert? I don't think so.

Originally Posted by ImEvil1

If you're here to make a positive contribution, then by all means do so....
Do some research on the Federal CC1 and maybe you might learn a little something. We learn things here on a regular basis.

True statement and I will only add that in this sight you will not have your post deleted just because you make a factual statement about another or a correction to what someone else has said. I can't say the same for another sight that you have followed and taken their view that "your reputations as a group proceeds you". This sole statement is what offended me as I am a contributing member to the sight.

[svopaul]

I personally have a bad taste from my experience with the MCA and their classes and judging when it comes to late models. I'm not there for a trophy but think the system should be fair and I think they would get more participation if it was. I won't get into the long story but the short version is that I saw a problem with them classing 74-2005 cars in the same modified class....the Fox generation for example has design flaws that take points off compared to the newer platforms and therefore with EVERYTHING else being exactly the same the Fox car will ALWAYS lose because they take off for things that are beyond the owners control(ie: rub marks on the hatch to the body that wasn't addressed by Ford until 1991). My contact with the MCA judges showed me their unwillingness to listen let alone change and finally in the end they admitted I had a valid point but their response was that I should get involved and become a judge and work to change things. Not all of us have disposable time and I thought the whole point of having leaders in a club was to take input from members....which seemed unwelcome. I had let my membership expire as my way of telling them I was not happy....however I had to give in to the extortion at the 45th show because they would not let you attend without paying the membership fee and even though I worked the show I could not take advantage of the track time perk for workers without paying said extortion fee.

I think they have the early models pretty well ironed out but they need to spend more time on the late models. I think there also needs to be more education for judges on late models because I know for a fact the guys looking at my car in Pensacola a couple years ago knew extremely little about my car and had no clue what was modified or not.

When it comes to SSP's I think the only fair way to handle a judging system is to use the standard as it came from Ford, there are too many variables and inconsistencies in regards to equipment to have a fair standard to apply and I agree that would be a mistake. Equipment was not installed with regard to cleanliness...it was a matter of function for a service vehicle and while some installers do clean installs, others are just there for a paycheck and don't care....so there is not a really fair way to judge something like that.

Of course this is why I stay out of judged shows.....my personal preference is to enjoy the car, people and hobby.....the judge in Pensacola that told me if I glued a piece of plastic to the car under the hatch bumper would "Look good and be a modification too" reinforced solidly why I don't get into judged classes....I'm sorry but I'm not gluing plastic circles to my car! I think it was a huge diservice for the judge to even suggest such a thing.

[NoDrama43]

Originally Posted by svopaul

When it comes to SSP's I think the only fair way to handle a judging system is to use the standard as it came from Ford, there are too many variables and inconsistencies in regards to equipment to have a fair standard to apply and I agree that would be a mistake. Equipment was not installed with regard to cleanliness...it was a matter of function for a service vehicle and while some installers do clean installs, others are just there for a paycheck and don't care....so there is not a really fair way to judge something like that.

Of course this is why I stay out of judged shows.....my personal preference is to enjoy the car, people and hobby.....the judge in Pensacola that told me if I glued a piece of plastic to the car under the hatch bumper would "Look good and be a modification too" reinforced solidly why I don't get into judged classes....I'm sorry but I'm not gluing plastic circles to my car! I think it was a huge diservice for the judge to even suggest such a thing.

Very well said Paul. and a big thanks for getting this thread back on topic ! As it is now there is a difference in how a car is judged, based on who is judging it. My next door neighbor would take his 69 Boss car (with 4k original miles) to a show and get points deducted for something, so he would make the changes, take it to the next show and get points deducted for changing it. He became so unhappy over it he sold the car and cancelled his membership. All in all though I think the MCA is a wonderful organization and I belong and support them. I give them credit (the judges) as it is NOT an easy job and I think they all try to do their very best. As the Fox cars get older I believe the judging standards will be refined and tweaked, including adressing issues like the hatch rub marks etc. I have been approached regarding judging SSP cars and I believe that agency installed equipment should not take off points, but it should not be essential for the car to be correct. My 92 CHP car #9067 has been discussed here and I won an MCA gold award every time I took it to a show. There were several judges that told me they were judging the car as if the equipment wasn't there. My opinion is that our cars should be judged for correctness as they exited the Ford plant nothing more. Correct tires, wheels, and SSP specific equipment etc. There are many issues.....and paint schemes are one of them. How about the judge that wanted to take off points on my GSP car because I had painted the rear bumper twilight blue? I had a copy of a build sheet with the same DSO # that clearly showed it was painted that way at the factory. It took some talking but the judge finally understood. These types of issues will come up and it is up to us to educate the MCA because in the case of our cars if they are to be judged properly it is going to be up to us to do the judging as we (SSP owners and enthusiasts) are the most informed.

[bonafide]

I a point to state how long I've been in the Mustang Hobby and a LEO because someone was trying to devoid my replies by accenting my limited time registered on this site. BTW, I've also been a member of MCA since 1984 and a certified judge for 3rd generation yrs. - but hey - you guys know more than me so I'll concede to your sandbox - ya'll have fun it, with ALL your misinformation being sold as fact.

Try having an open mind to FACTS and OPINIONS outside of your own and to the idea that you guys do not know everything about these cars.

[28HopUp]

Originally Posted by bonafide

Try having an open mind to FACTS and OPINIONS outside of your own and to the idea that you guys do not know everything about these cars.

All in good fun...

[28HopUp]

Originally Posted by bonafide

but hey - you guys know more than me so I'll concede to your sandbox - ya'll have fun it, with ALL your misinformation being sold as fact.

All kidding aside, it would probably be better to move these exchanges to the private message system. However, as of this post time you have not yet replied to my PM even though you have logged on and written on the board since then. Since my PM went unanswered, let me point out the following:

• you made an erroneous statement when you said that "no agency has ever had an exact equipment standard for any of their in service cars".
• Several members/staffers corrected your statement, and showed evidence that at least one department (the CHP) does have and use an equipment standard.
• Rather than agree with their answer(s), you've chosen to be stubborn about it and not accept what you've been shown/told.

EVERYONE (staff included) volunteers their time here because they are SSP enthusiasts. NOBODY is the absolute expert, and noone offers themselves up as one. But we do provide our experience and knowledge for the betterment of the SSP community.

Everyone has their own way of presenting themselves on the forum. I've re-read your posts as well as others who have posted in this thread. Since you decided to keep this discussion on the open forum, I must say that IMO your posts cast you in a bad light. I doubt that anything I say will get through to you, so I am done with this discussion. Good luck with your GSP.

[FHP813]

Originally Posted by 28HopUp

EVERYONE (staff included) volunteers their time here because they are SSP enthusiasts. NOBODY is the absolute expert, and noone offers themselves up as one. But we do provide our experience and knowledge for the betterment of the SSP community.

And on that point. Let's move on.