PCOOA 20th in Kansas City, MO

[copcamaro]

Originally Posted by ImEvil1

Jim,

No one here is trying to trash the event, but we are very careful about who we hang out with and how the SSP hobby is "promoted". Light shows, videos of staged pursuits, Mustangs with LED e-lighting on them, people parking in circles in parking lots (drinking) with lights flashing while drawing chalk outlines of bodies are all things that are not what I'd consider positive promotions of the hobby. If you know the PCOOA history and choose to hang out with them, good for you. If you know the history of how some members from ORG act at car shows and hang out with them, again, good for you. Personally, I choose not to associate myself or the hobby with some of the types of people that you do. I also choose not to go to car shows with guys who are driving "restored" 2000-ish Crown Vics around. It's my personal choice, just as it is yours, and I'm apparently not alone. Many others here on NET and elsewhere feel the same way.

That's all. It's not a NET v/s ORG thing, as there are good members of both.

BTW....I'm not sure which car is yours, but I didn't see any FHP cars in the video that Mike posted last year that were original with respect to the lighting.

I have been a member of this PCOOA club for 20 years, really proud of my association with Mr. Jim Post, and have NEVER seen anyone driving in circles in parking lots, or any where else drinking!
I know that Jim would definately NOT allow this.
I have seen (unlike some of your other posters) Jim boot out members for things that did not promote our hobby, and show it in it's best light.
Jim was a Police Sgt in KCMO and I am darn sure he knows what should and should not be done!
As far as the light shows they are done on private parking lots (not on the streets).
Only time the lights and sirens are allowed are when sanctioned by and asked us to do by local Police Depts.
These I know, from personal experience (NOT HEAR SAY)
I would think you L.E.O.'s would, or should know what hear say can do to a case in court! It's gone.
I am also amazed at how some of the posters on this sight trash other members for incorrect eq, decals, lights etc.
Isn't this supposed to be a fun thing?
Some of us don't have bundles of $ too spend on correct eq. and have to make due.
Come on guys come to the KCMO show and see for yourselves, the PCOOA is a GREAT bunch of folks doing our Hobby thing LAWFULLY.

[ImEvil1]

Originally Posted by copcamaro

I have been a member of this PCOOA club for 20 years, really proud of my association with Mr. Jim Post, and have NEVER seen anyone driving in circles in parking lots, or any where else drinking!
I know that Jim would definately NOT allow this.
I have seen (unlike some of your other posters) Jim boot out members for things that did not promote our hobby, and show it in it's best light.
Jim was a Police Sgt in KCMO and I am darn sure he knows what should and should not be done!
As far as the light shows they are done on private parking lots (not on the streets).
Only time the lights and sirens are allowed are when sanctioned by and asked us to do by local Police Depts.
These I know, from personal experience (NOT HEAR SAY)
I would think you L.E.O.'s would, or should know what hear say can do to a case in court! It's gone.
I am also amazed at how some of the posters on this sight trash other members for incorrect eq, decals, lights etc.
Isn't this supposed to be a fun thing?
Some of us don't have bundles of $ too spend on correct eq. and have to make due.
Come on guys come to the KCMO show and see for yourselves, the PCOOA is a GREAT bunch of folks doing our Hobby thing LAWFULLY.

Ray,

It's not hearsay when I've seen pictures of it, or Jim Y. (who is also an LEO) saw it firsthand.

As for "trashing" people with incorrect equipment, if pointing out that something is incorrect, after the OP says it is correct, is "trashing" them, then we can agree to disagree. This hobby is about respecting the cars, respecting the "privilege" of being able to own one, and preserving the history of them. Slapping equipment into a car just so it's functional doesn't cut it here. The equipment is out there, and is affordable enough to many; especially when the greedy ($$$) dealers and flippers don't get their hands on it. They don't operate on this website.

Everyone has their own opinion about light shows and parades. If someone wants to play with emergency equipment and thinks that's neat, so be it. The fact is, the ONLY time lights and sirens are AUTHORIZED is when a real LE officer is using them to respond to an emergency or to conduct a traffic stop. General citizens (including off-duty, out-of-state LEOs) sitting around in a parking lot doesn't qualify. It's also a semi-public place, since the general public has access to it. If an officer says it's OK, it's because the officer is not going to enforce it, not because the law, in most cases, is not in effect.

[NoDrama43]

Originally Posted by copcamaro

I have been a member of this PCOOA club for 20 years, really proud of my association with Mr. Jim Post, and have NEVER seen anyone driving in circles in parking lots, or any where else drinking!
I know that Jim would definately NOT allow this.
I have seen (unlike some of your other posters) Jim boot out members for things that did not promote our hobby, and show it in it's best light.
Jim was a Police Sgt in KCMO and I am darn sure he knows what should and should not be done!
As far as the light shows they are done on private parking lots (not on the streets).
Only time the lights and sirens are allowed are when sanctioned by and asked us to do by local Police Depts.
These I know, from personal experience (NOT HEAR SAY)
I would think you L.E.O.'s would, or should know what hear say can do to a case in court! It's gone.
I am also amazed at how some of the posters on this sight trash other members for incorrect eq, decals, lights etc.
Isn't this supposed to be a fun thing?
Some of us don't have bundles of $ too spend on correct eq. and have to make due.
Come on guys come to the KCMO show and see for yourselves, the PCOOA is a GREAT bunch of folks doing our Hobby thing LAWFULLY.

Ray,

Attached is my previous post from the thread. I thought I would break it down for you and everyone else so there is no confusion as to my focus.

Diesel here is 3.85 a gallon. I don't drive marked SSP cars to shows 16 hours away. I have no desire to spend the money it would take to drive to Dallas. If I was driving out I would go to Roman's show instead.

This has nothing to do with the PCOOA show or Jim Post, just my stating which show I would attend if I went to Texas. I would rather see and hang out with Roman instead of going to Dallas.

I don't like light shows because I have been present and personally embarrassed by the conduct of *certain* ssp owners at car shows, parking lot gatherings, and the subsequent publishing of the events on the internet.

This is not hearsay. If you would like to see the pictures of these special moments when they were happening let me know. I can provide them. Additionally this statement does not refer to Jim Post or the PCOOA in any manner.

The article I read stated "approximately 30" show vehicles. It doesn't matter if it was 48 or 480 to me.

Earlier in this thread a member who was present at this show posted the show field was split 50/50 with 12 SSP cars in attendence. 12 + 12 = 24 not 48. Which "hearsay" should we believe? In reality it doesn't matter. There wasn't enough cars there to warrant my attendence. This is just my thoughts, not an indictment of the shows worth, enjoyment factor, or qualifications of the show sponsor.

The social networking aspect of .org is of absolutely no importance to me. I simply choose not to associate with *certain* members there as I feel their actions, comments, reputation, and philosophy regarding these cars, is in direct conflict with my own. If they all get together and have a good time with each other I think that is good for them. If their "getting together and having a good time" includes engaging in conduct that makes cop car owners look like idiots, then I dissaprove. It only takes one time. Sadly there have been several.

More conduct personally witnessed, not hearsay and has nothing to do with the PCOOA or Jim Post.

I won't be in Dallas. I would rather spend the weekend working on cars in my barn than trailering one 1000 miles one way to a show. For those that do go I hope you enjoy the show.

Nothing to do with Jim Post and PCOOA here. My thoughts on driving to Texas as covered earlier.

I AM a motor officer. I am intimately involved on a daily basis with the movement of traffic. My agency would not consider for one moment escorting a parade of privately owned police cars through traffic. There is no legal rationale and all it does is anger other motorists who don't understand why YOU think YOU should be given special treatment. (This relates back to the philisophical differences I have with other owners of restored police cars.) The only time I agree with the use of lights and siren by private owners is during a controlled sanctioned parade, managed, facilitated and coordinated by local law enforcement.

Based upon your description of the "light show" it meets my criteria and is in agreement with my thoughts about being sanctioned by local LE.

I disagree with several aspects of the philosophy practiced by *certain* members of the .org website. My perspective is molded by my background in law enforcement and my knowledge of the public perception of the police profession. Simply put.....I would rather stay home than be embarrassed and associated with *certain* owners. It isn't everyone.....just the select few that ruin it for everyone.

Again this has no reference to Jim Post or the PCOOA. This is specifically referring to that small select group of individuals that drive old cop cars and conduct themselves in a manner that brings disrepect to our hobby and the law enforcement profession. We ALL know who they are. This is no suprise to anyone.

I am glad the PCOOA show is an event you are attending and looking forward to. Like I said in my previous post I hope it is an enjoyable time for all who attend.

I spent some time reading the post reference this event on .org today. I have not been on the site in months but I chose to go to help myself get a better understanding about the event. I see where you and and another member have been looking forward to this show for some months now and you excitement about the upcoming show is obvious. I personally hope you attend and have a great time and I have posted as much several times now. I don't want you to think I am "trashing" the event simply because I don't share your zeal to attend.

In regards to equipment being incorrect I have a simple response. If a person puts out information about the equipment in an SSP car being correct and it in fact is not, we will comment about it. We try very hard to ensure accuracy here to the best of our abilities. It isn't about the person themselves, or the amount of money they do or don't spend. It is about us wanting to have a web-site that is as factually correct as possible. Nothing more than that.

I hope you enjoy the show in KCMO. Be sure and take lots of pictures so we can attend from afar.

[copcamaro]

Colo. 2005 we were escorted by the CSP w/2 bikes and 2 Fully marked cars. This was sanctioned by the CSP.
Colo. 75th last year, said no lights or sirens!! We ALL complied, they were more than corduial to us and escorted us w/2 car, up to Blackhawk.
Indiana several years back (last one I attended) was sanctioned by ISP and Indianapolis PD. Fullyl escorted, they, ISP even shut down Interstate. They appreciated us coming and showing the cars. If the had a problem with the club they sure as the devil wouldn't of invited us back 3 years running.

Show me one car that one of the folks on the board thinks is perfect, and I would bet I or someone with greater knowledge can find something not exactly right.
I have seen a lot of cars and shows in my 20 years, seen really nice cars, but never a absolutely perfect one.

I was in L.E for a few years, but of course a small rural Mo. sheriffs dept.. Believe it or not we did the same job as the larger Dept. with a whole lot less money. We drove cars that were not police pkgs but were official.
I bought retired Mo. State SSP's as the retired them with 50 k miles.

[ImEvil1]

Originally Posted by copcamaro

Colo. 2005 we were escorted by the CSP w/2 bikes and 2 Fully marked cars. This was sanctioned by the CSP.
Colo. 75th last year, said no lights or sirens!! We ALL complied, they were more than corduial to us and escorted us w/2 car, up to Blackhawk.
Indiana several years back (last one I attended) was sanctioned by ISP and Indianapolis PD. Fullyl escorted, they, ISP even shut down Interstate. They appreciated us coming and showing the cars. If the had a problem with the club they sure as the devil wouldn't of invited us back 3 years running.

Show me one car that one of the folks on the board thinks is perfect, and I would bet I or someone with greater knowledge can find something not exactly right.
I have seen a lot of cars and shows in my 20 years, seen really nice cars, but never a absolutely perfect one.

I was in L.E for a few years, but of course a small rural Mo. sheriffs dept.. Believe it or not we did the same job as the larger Dept. with a whole lot less money. We drove cars that were not police pkgs but were official.
I bought retired Mo. State SSP's as the retired them with 50 k miles.

Ray,

The CSP anniversary shows were sponsored by the Patrol, not the PCOOA.

50 year old police cars should not have wig-wag headlights.

The PCOOA claims affiliation with Copcar.com on their website, yet admin @ CC.com refute this. Do you know why?

Bottom line: feel free to do whatever you choose. You registered here today, not before, to talk up the PCOOA. Don't be offended if others here disagree with your opinion of that group, or any others being discussed.

We are very clear here on what our mission statement is and what we're all about. If it's not what you like or care to be a part of, feel free to opt out.

[copcamaro]

Originally Posted by NoDrama43

Ray,

Attached is my previous post from the thread. I thought I would break it down for you and everyone else so there is no confusion as to my focus.

Diesel here is 3.85 a gallon. I don't drive marked SSP cars to shows 16 hours away. I have no desire to spend the money it would take to drive to Dallas. If I was driving out I would go to Roman's show instead.

This has nothing to do with the PCOOA show or Jim Post, just my stating which show I would attend if I went to Texas. I would rather see and hang out with Roman instead of going to Dallas.

I don't like light shows because I have been present and personally embarrassed by the conduct of *certain* ssp owners at car shows, parking lot gatherings, and the subsequent publishing of the events on the internet.

This is not hearsay. If you would like to see the pictures of these special moments when they were happening let me know. I can provide them. Additionally this statement does not refer to Jim Post or the PCOOA in any manner.

The article I read stated "approximately 30" show vehicles. It doesn't matter if it was 48 or 480 to me.

Earlier in this thread a member who was present at this show posted the show field was split 50/50 with 12 SSP cars in attendence. 12 + 12 = 24 not 48. Which "hearsay" should we believe? In reality it doesn't matter. There wasn't enough cars there to warrant my attendence. This is just my thoughts, not an indictment of the shows worth, enjoyment factor, or qualifications of the show sponsor.

The social networking aspect of .org is of absolutely no importance to me. I simply choose not to associate with *certain* members there as I feel their actions, comments, reputation, and philosophy regarding these cars, is in direct conflict with my own. If they all get together and have a good time with each other I think that is good for them. If their "getting together and having a good time" includes engaging in conduct that makes cop car owners look like idiots, then I dissaprove. It only takes one time. Sadly there have been several.

More conduct personally witnessed, not hearsay and has nothing to do with the PCOOA or Jim Post.

I won't be in Dallas. I would rather spend the weekend working on cars in my barn than trailering one 1000 miles one way to a show. For those that do go I hope you enjoy the show.

Nothing to do with Jim Post and PCOOA here. My thoughts on driving to Texas as covered earlier.

I AM a motor officer. I am intimately involved on a daily basis with the movement of traffic. My agency would not consider for one moment escorting a parade of privately owned police cars through traffic. There is no legal rationale and all it does is anger other motorists who don't understand why YOU think YOU should be given special treatment. (This relates back to the philisophical differences I have with other owners of restored police cars.) The only time I agree with the use of lights and siren by private owners is during a controlled sanctioned parade, managed, facilitated and coordinated by local law enforcement.

Based upon your description of the "light show" it meets my criteria and is in agreement with my thoughts about being sanctioned by local LE.

I disagree with several aspects of the philosophy practiced by *certain* members of the .org website. My perspective is molded by my background in law enforcement and my knowledge of the public perception of the police profession. Simply put.....I would rather stay home than be embarrassed and associated with *certain* owners. It isn't everyone.....just the select few that ruin it for everyone.

Again this has no reference to Jim Post or the PCOOA. This is specifically referring to that small select group of individuals that drive old cop cars and conduct themselves in a manner that brings disrepect to our hobby and the law enforcement profession. We ALL know who they are. This is no suprise to anyone.

I am glad the PCOOA show is an event you are attending and looking forward to. Like I said in my previous post I hope it is an enjoyable time for all who attend.

I spent some time reading the post reference this event on .org today. I have not been on the site in months but I chose to go to help myself get a better understanding about the event. I see where you and and another member have been looking forward to this show for some months now and you excitement about the upcoming show is obvious. I personally hope you attend and have a great time and I have posted as much several times now. I don't want you to think I am "trashing" the event simply because I don't share your zeal to attend.

In regards to equipment being incorrect I have a simple response. If a person puts out information about the equipment in an SSP car being correct and it in fact is not, we will comment about it. We try very hard to ensure accuracy here to the best of our abilities. It isn't about the person themselves, or the amount of money they do or don't spend. It is about us wanting to have a web-site that is as factually correct as possible. Nothing more than that.

I hope you enjoy the show in KCMO. Be sure and take lots of pictures so we can attend from afar.

Jim:
As you stated in your 5th paragraph above, you would gladly send me pictures of those bad things that went on at a, or some shows, mentioned in previous statements.
I would very much appreciate your doing this.
If need be, you can just e-mail them to me at copcamaro@yahoo.com if it would save embarassment to someone.
Thanks from me!!

[copcamaro]

Originally Posted by NoDrama43

Ray,

I want to make sure you understand I am NOT referring to the PCOOA when I talk about the embarrassing scenarios played out across america by others. I have a complete library of photos saved and here are just a few. Hotel parking lot, off show grounds, at night in this first one.

I do appreciate your taking time to show this one, although I really do't see anything degrading about this one. Just my $.02 worth
If you would send more to my pre mentioned address and maybe i can find something that validates the claims!
"Thanks again"

[NoDrama43]

Originally Posted by copcamaro

I do appreciate your taking time to show this one, although I really do't see anything degrading about this one. Just my $.02 worth
If you would send more to my pre mentioned address and maybe i can find something that validates the claims!
"Thanks again"

I would tell you to surf .org because they were all posted there but I have been told they were all removed from public viewing? I wonder why they were removed??

I think it is obvious.....to us all.

If you prescribe to the hotel parking lot, beer drinking, chalk outlining philosophy regarding these cars then you came to the wrong place. Nobody here agrees with that kind of foolishness. That is just the way it is here.

[NoDrama43]

check them out while you can.....I will be removing the pictures as they don't need to be displayed in public for everyone to see or remember......

[GSPI]

So this looks to be like trouble here but here's what I know:

1. Copcar.com has an affiliate website of pcooa.com which is called the "police car on-line owner's association" which is not Police Car Owners of America. I'm a member of the pcooa.com group again, not PCOoA. Jim Post still has never sent my PCOOA application from 1999 as he had promised in two telephone conversations.

2. Jim Post has had a checkered past with the PCOoA organization and he's been less than welcomed at Copcar.com's site due to many issues that have been addressed with the site owner of CCdC and the reason the site owner has taken the pcooa.com web address. Many collectors at CCdC have taken refuge from the EVOOA, Historical Police Honor Guard and the PCOOA due to many mis-fires in their shows and practices.

3. I get concerned when there is a parking lot light show unless it's an actual sanctioned cruise in or sanctioned show (ie Chicagoland weekend in N. Aurora, IL). This is a highly illegal hobby in the grand scheme of things and should be addressed with great caution when operating one of these vehicles. The newness of the Mustangs also give a bad image to the hobby just for being newer than 25 years in some cases (even though that's changing rapidly - 2013 and 1988 is 25 years old!). Fortunately, I drive a 1978 lime green police car to shows and it's not as apparent that it's a police car at times but I still respect the ride by covering up my markings and lighting.

Again, just adding information as I've been with this hobby since 1996.